ProZac's 1982 Starion - Now with added 86!

[Schultz]

Congratulation to you both and thank you very kindly for all your help on here. :beer

[ProZac]

I've been doing the odd bit of work on this. I bought a set of autoliv generic replacement seatbelts (60-90, and 120-90 for anyone that needs them) and had a local company de-web them, and thread on the original emergency buckle fitting, and trim peices for where they pass through the door skins. I mucked about for ages carefully removing the upper mounts from the old belts, and grafting them onto the autoliv ones. It makes setting their operation angle super easy.

I managed to fit a set of factory central locking motors from a US widebody. Was super easy on the passengers side door, which is original to the car and has the later model internal pressing with all the correct mounting points in place... I had to make a template and invert it to transfer the mounting points to my drivers door, which is off and earlier model and didn't have them... It all worked out pretty nicely though. I also scavenged a whole bunch of Yazaki 58 Type S connectors from various mid 90's nissans at the local junkyard, so I can build new door looms following the factory specs.

I really need to find a bunch of money to throw at it now, as there are several jobs I'm part way through that require purchases to complete... First on the list is a pair of Nissan S13 D2 coilover lower mounts, as they're one of the major puzzle pieces to this swap:



I'm going about it the same way Silo did back in the day, as its the only way to use an S13 rack that makes sense to me. Swapping in the entire front suspension setup means someone else (Nissan) has already did the math for me. By swapping to S13 stuff, I lose some of benefits of having the uber long control arms that Starions have, but as my front suspension will be working over a much smaller range overall, It should be fine.

Or it'll be a complete clusterfuck, and I'll set it on fire and push it over a cliff ;-).

[niss720]

I love following your threads, the work and detail that goes into your cars is an awesome inspiration. I'd like to convert my Starion to Rack and pinion too in the near future as we all know the flaws of the steering box design. Will converting to S13 LCA's and hubs change the offset of the front wheels? The Starions already run a very low offset so it will be interesting to see now the S13 parts effect the offset, suspension and scrub characteristics ect. I will be watching this one closely

[ProZac]

The specs for the track width of an S13 are ~50mm wider than the Starion, however I'm not sure where that is measured, if its centerline to centerline of the original wheels, or the hub-wheel interface surface, or...? I had 25mm spacers on the 17x9 wheels to get them to fit nicely, and I'm hoping without those the wheels should be approximately in the right place, width wise. The strut towers are a smidge narrower on the Starion, so the camber will be pretty excessive, but I should hopefully be able to fix that with the adjustable top plates. It's possible I might have to shorten the S13 lower arms a little though, but that's not a biggie.

Fore-Aft location of the wheels is the next step, as I'd like it in the ball-park of factory, so the caster can be set correctly without too much load on the front arm bushes. I took a bunch of measurements before I pulled it all apart, but the front end was such a miss-aligned mess that they probably don't mean much, heh.

Scrub radius is anyone's guess, I'm going to suck it and see on that one :-). I can try to dial it in later on by varying the offsets.

The entire reason for the swap was that the original box, and all inkanges were shot. Was going to be $1000+ to get the box rebuilt... A little pricey for my tastes, so this should hopefully provide a solution :-).

I'm making a jig as I go too, as if it works out nicely, I'll do another one for the black car.

[niss720]

Sounds pretty good, if you need any more of the S13 measurements let me know soon as I'm selling my 180 soon but can take some time to confirm the measurements before hand, If it all works out I may have to buy a modified cross member off you as I have a few of them spare I could swap with you and utilise your jig to save me doing all the measuring myself.

[niss720]

I just measured the track on the two cars
180:
1650 - from the edges of the tyres,
1470 - from the centre of tread

Starion
1650 - from wheel edges
1420 - from the centre of the tread.

with this being said the Starion has 9" wide wheels on the front and the 180 has stockies

[ProZac]

Cheers for doing that dude, I really appreciate it.

Sort of sounds like what I was expecting, if you measures the two from hub-face to hub-face, the 180 is probably a good 50-100mm wider? I might have to shorten the s13 lower arms a little after all. There are adjustable ones out there, but any that you'd actually want to use seem to cost a packet! Plus I suspect their shortest length would be stock, as most people want to widen the front track even further.

[Lunacy]

I'm making a jig as I go too, as if it works out nicely, I'll do another one for the black car.

And one for me, 2 for Jase, one for Mike... :beer

[ProZac]

Hah, need to see what the geometry is like first, and how it drives, then maybe look at making more of them :-). It could be complete ass you know!

[perrinsohc]

Is that engine cross member still a Starion one with the steering gear modified to fit?

[ProZac]

The base subframe structure is the Nissan S13 (actually an S14, but they're the same) one, with the chassis/engine mounting 'ears' from a starion crossmember chopped up to fit. I'll use Nissan lower control arms, knuckles, hubs, brakes, and lower suspension mounts. I'll thread my existing D2 coilovers into the nissan lower suspension mounts, and it should all go together. Doing it this way I shouldnt strike any bump-steer issues.

I've also moved the subframe up into the vehicle as high as the sump will allow, so get the suspension geometry back into it's normal (ish) range with the car lowered.

[perrinsohc]

Very cool man, can't wait to see the progress and development on this. It would be a nice match to the SR20 car , you can share your kiwi secrets with me when the time comes lol

[ProZac]

The S13 lower D2 mounts came in (thanks Scarles), got things mocked up again. It's as suspected, the S13 lower arms are just a bit too long. With the camber adjustability on the lower mounts all the way to positive, there is still around 3-4 deg of negative camber. I could correct this with the top hats, but it would add so much track to the front the wheels would no longer fit under the guards.







My internet research leads me to believe that R31 control arms should fit the S13 lower crossmember and knuckles, with the same angle on the balljoint, but are ~20mm shorter. I'll track down a pair of those and give them a shot. If they still aren't going to work, I'll shorten some and get them right.

The R32/Z32 brakes clear the wheel nicely, the wheel has full range lock to lock and clears the inner fender currently too. It's currently 5mm further back than when I started, but the crossmember isn't welded together yet, so I just need to nudge the base structure forward 5mm, and it should be copacetic :-)

Getting there piece by piece :-).

[ProZac]

Right, have sorted some R31 control arms from up north, should see them next week. They're apparently 20mm shorter than the s13 ones, so I'm hoping they do the trick, and I don't have to do any cutty cutty weldy weldy. Anything I weld on the suspension side of things has to be NDT tested, so if I can avoid that it's a bit cheaper.

[perrinsohc]

good progress there. very nice to see it coming together. hopefully these shorter arms achieve the fitment you're after