Lunacy's Targa Car Build

Entaran · Post by **Entaran** » Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:44 am

Just some thoughts which you can take as advice if you want...

The 2g (evo 1-3) heads are useless when you compare them to the 1g (vr4/galant gsr) heads. they're also 3 times as expensive. The intake/exhaust ports are WAY smaller on evo heads and flow HEAPS less.

Also, If you really -really- want an epic head...

Save $1600 US, buy a galant GSR head from the wreckers for 20 bucks, put it in a box and send it to www.ffwdconnection.com -> Get a S/S Dominator (under Flow)

I have one. It's epic. Epically epic. You can spin the fucker to 11k rpm if your crank will handle it :)

OLD FART · Post by **OLD FART** » Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:26 am

Put me down for a couple of your $20.00 4g63 GSR heads if you can find any :D

Lunacy · Post by **Lunacy** » Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:14 pm

Entaran thanks for your input.
What is a galant gsr head? Im not sure we got them over here in NZ.
Not sure if you need to be a member but here is a good bit of info regarding the evo vs vr4 head debate.
http://www.mmc.org.nz/forum/viewtopic.p ... o+vr4+head
Basically it all comes down to what people are doing with their engines.
Im not looking for rediculous horsepower, and as the car is going to be for targa/circuit racing, so reliability is more of a key for me.
Cheers

dirtygalant · Post by **dirtygalant** » Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:07 pm

Entaran you don't know shit, sorry.

Yes the VR-4 ports are massive, does that mean they are the best? No not necessarily. Mitsubishi did just what Toyota did with their TVIS, made a massively oversized port and then found there was a big hole in the lower rev range so restricted flow (therefore increasing turbulence) at lower revs with the dual runner manifold.

If the Evo small ports are so crap, why has almost every single manufacturer moved to smaller ports, more so smaller ports combined with a steeper angle of flow directed right at the back of the valve. The ports in the Evo head are hardly small either, they are still of a respectable size they just happen to be not so large as the VR-4 ports.

OLD FART · Post by **OLD FART** » Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:10 pm

Bryce a GSR head is from a 4G63 HG/HH fwd Gallant that was sold in OZ app 89/90 and it is a big port na head that was the same as the VR4 TURBO with I am led to believe different cams
Cheers and happy new year
Rad

Lunacy · Post by **Lunacy** » Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:31 pm

OLD FART wrote:Bryce a GSR head is from a 4G63 HG/HH fwd Gallant that was sold in OZ app 89/90 and it is a big port na head that was the same as the VR4 TURBO with I am led to believe different cams
Cheers and happy new year
Rad

Ah i had a funny feeling it may have been that one :) Strangely enough i was at the pick a part wreckers here the other day and there were 3 of those there all going for $70nzd each!
Think you are right too the vr4 did have different cams to the NA 4g63 motor.
All the best to you and your family for New years too mate, hopefully mite get over to Aussie again next year again for a catch up :)

OLD FART · Post by **OLD FART** » Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:34 pm

Lunacy wrote:
OLD FART wrote:Bryce a GSR head is from a 4G63 HG/HH fwd Gallant that was sold in OZ app 89/90 and it is a big port na head that was the same as the VR4 TURBO with I am led to believe different cams
Cheers and happy new year
Rad
Ah i had a funny feeling it may have been that one :) Strangely enough i was at the pick a part wreckers here the other day and there were 3 of those there all going for $70nzd each!
Think you are right too the vr4 did have different cams to the NA 4g63 motor.
All the best to you and your family for New years too mate, hopefully mite get over to Aussie again next year again for a catch up :)

If you do please bring one of those heads with you :)

Lunacy · Post by **Lunacy** » Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:06 pm

OLD FART wrote:
Lunacy wrote:
OLD FART wrote:Bryce a GSR head is from a 4G63 HG/HH fwd Gallant that was sold in OZ app 89/90 and it is a big port na head that was the same as the VR4 TURBO with I am led to believe different cams
Cheers and happy new year
Rad
Ah i had a funny feeling it may have been that one :) Strangely enough i was at the pick a part wreckers here the other day and there were 3 of those there all going for $70nzd each!
Think you are right too the vr4 did have different cams to the NA 4g63 motor.
All the best to you and your family for New years too mate, hopefully mite get over to Aussie again next year again for a catch up :)
If you do please bring one of those heads with you :)

Haha no probs mate :) Hmmm i wonder if i could get it on as hand luggage? :p
Can always send ya one if ya like mate, shipping mite be a bit nasty though.

dirtygalant · Post by **dirtygalant** » Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:48 pm

I sent a V6 cylinder head approx 20kgs to Australia for NZ$75.

Those 'Galant GSR' heads are common, all the import 2L Galants (E33A) are twin cam 4G63.

Entaran · Post by **Entaran** » Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:22 pm

The n/a heads have I think 254 degree cams, the turbo heads about 259/260 degree but I haven't done the maths/checking myself, I just read this information on galantvr4.org (the us site). Needless to say, most people upgrade to 264, 272 or some combination of both.

Oldie: I've got 2 of them in the shed that I picked up off t4g for less than 50 bucks (for both). Got them at the same time. One's going on my car the other i'm keeping as a spare.

dg: In response to your post, yes they ARE going to smaller ports among other things, but these changes are also in line with things such as direct fire ignition, changed injector placement (in many new cars, the injector is in the bore next to the spark plug) and MANY MANY ecu mapping improvements and other sensors. Just because it's happening on new cars doesn't mean it suits old cars. Maybe YOU should go spend some time on dsmtuners and have a bit of a look around. Also, as for your comment on low end response, I hardly think this car is looking for low end response. If I am incorrect in my assumption then I'm quite happy to admit it and offer other suggestions.

Lunacy: I'm sorry I can't find the flowbench charts for the VR4 vs Evo heads atm w/same valves. Valves make a big difference obviously so comparing flow charts from a 1mm oversize head vs a stock head or vice versa/combinations is kind of redundant. Stock vs Stock the vr4 head flows slightly more but I need to dig up the figures for you. Also, the 1g head has the cam angle sensor in a way more easy to live with location although could be a pain in the ass for RWD application. You could possibly look for a 3g head where they put the CAS on the front somewhere but I'm not sure what type of car that comes off or if the head would be suitable oil/water gallery wise nor the rest. I've simply no experience in that matter.

quest · Post by **quest** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:00 am

2g (evo 1-3) heads are useless when you compare them to the 1g (vr4/galant gsr) heads

total rubbish. A pack of mitsus locally compete amongst themselves for the quickest on stock evoIII 16g & mitsu electronics, same weight. Some run 1st gen/VR4 head/or motors. They all 1/8th ET in the 7.5-7.9sec range (which equates to an impressive 11sec street car on near oe equipment).
ALL of the top performers run the smaller port head. Useless.... eh ?

Epically epic. You can spin the fucker to 11k rpm if your crank will handle it

With hi rev, powerband only gets peakier..... hurts motor longevity, adds more stress.
The 11,000rpm screamers in our corolla club ET no quicker than the traditional 8000rpm setups.
SQC quickest street 2.6 redlines @6300rpm. Mid 10sec 1/4
hi rev means nothing.

intake/exhaust ports are WAY smaller on evo heads and flow HEAPS less

Peak hp or head flow numbers don't equate to a quicker street car either.
We don't drive a flow bench. Alot goes on in between

Lunacy · Post by **Lunacy** » Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:28 pm

Right well back from work for another 4 weeks so strait back into getting alot sorted on the car :) Need to get into it as wife and i just bought a house so its welcome to mortgageville for us.
While i was away i managed to pick up a B2600 gearbox, a spare evo head, a Racetech seat and a battery cable :) Thanks to JAS for collecting alot of it for me.
Well today i got stuck into my struts, managed to get 1 gland nut off ok, but the other one would not budge even after bashing, heating, welding on a breaker bar etc. Suspension shop had no luck even so that one has just been chopped. Suspension place has new threaded tops to weld on so not a worry really.
So struts are all chopped now, and will mock up the top piece to weld on with these GAB inserts (same size as the mr2 ones il be using).
Also sorted out a coilover setup while i was at suspension place :)
Russell the dude in the Stocks workshop in Auckland is a legend and full of help and knowledge - big ups to him :)

Also got these in the mail yesterday too :)

Engine should be back by end of next week, off to be balanced on monday then assembled again and hopefully home to me by friday :)

Lunacy · Post by **Lunacy** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:40 pm

Well engine is at balancers now, ended up having to have the crank ground which i wanted to avoid, but at least have better clearances now and has been re-nitrided so should be all good.
In the meantime ive been busy doing my struts, and painting my engine bay - pics tell the story :D

Yep its Fiji blue :beer :beer :beer

MR Bender · Post by **MR Bender** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:53 pm

looks awsome!!!

JAS · Post by **JAS** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:14 pm

:beer

Looking good mate!!

I see you didnt flatten out that bump on the fire wall for CAS clearance? You going to move the engine forward a bit?

Austarion

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