Electric Starion

Nord72 · Post by **Nord72** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:56 am

Hi all,

Anyone have or know about Starion with electric drive ?
Anyone tried any project with in-wheel ac motors ?
I'm very interested in EVs, so if you know anything weird system related to ev, just let me know, that would be cool.

Thanx in adv.

Nord

http://www.carstyling.hu/car_shower.php?id=7650

AB · Post by AB » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:17 am

I'm pretty sure no one on here has tried it but I guess a Starion would be as good a base as most other cars. I've never heard of any individual building In-wheel AC motors, that would be a pretty big design and engineering feat. Mitsubishi has done that for their EV Colt which is being released this year (I think?) and the EV EVO which is due to be released in 2010. If you wanted to make your own I think you'd be best off sticking with the tried and true method of a single large DC motor bolted onto the gearbox. Better to wait for Mitsubishi to reinvent the wheel rather than attempting to do it yourself.

Nord72 · Post by **Nord72** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:27 am

AB wrote:I'm pretty sure no one on here has tried it but I guess a Starion would be as good a base as most other cars. I've never heard of any individual building In-wheel AC motors, that would be a pretty big design and engineering feat. Mitsubishi has done that for their EV Colt which is being released this year (I think?) and the EV EVO which is due to be released in 2010. If you wanted to make your own I think you'd be best off sticking with the tried and true method of a single large DC motor bolted onto the gearbox. Better to wait for Mitsubishi to reinvent the wheel rather than attempting to do it yourself.

But I think AC motors would be a better choice, because it has generator function as well, so while you pushing the brake it will refill the system.
Actually I have a 15kW standard (could be load until around 40 kW) AC 3 phase elektro motor (42V - 3 phase) and I could get a clear (no engine,trans., but it has the differential ) Starion for almost free of charge from a friend of mine.
So I'm planning to installing this engine connected directly to the diff.
Batteries would be in the 'enginebay'.
It would be an experimental project, whats your opinion ?

Thanx in adv.

Nord

Post by **Alspos** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:35 am

even 40kw would make it a slow car.
Intersting project if you get the stuff cheap though.

JD_Stazza_Brendan · Post by **JD_Stazza_Brendan** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:20 am

Electric motors generate so much more torque though.

Nord72 · Post by **Nord72** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:29 am

JD_Stazza_Brendan wrote:Electric motors generate so much more torque though.

Yeah, it has better curves than any other engines

Here is the video, where the idea come from :

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/si/video/chapter_6-wrapper.html

Bye,

Nord

decoy · Post by **decoy** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:31 am

i guess if your working with 40kw a 1300kg car wouldn't be the most efficient starting point, but interesting none the less.

AB · Post by AB » Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:30 pm

I don't think the regeneration is worth the extra effort and expense. You'd need a way to convert from high voltage/high amperage DC to AC and then somehow create a recharging interface that works through the brake pedal but still allows the standard brakes to work under emergency brakeing. As far as I know no private individual has done this but I'd be very interested in seeing it if they have. It's best to stick to what has been done before so there's other people around that can give you advice. I don't think you'll be able to get away with batteries in just the engine bay either if your using lead-acid , all the EV's I've seen have had a huge battery aray, usually 20 or so deep cycle batteries that take up a lot of room. Usually you can only get away with 3 or 4 in the engine bay once you've got the motor, controllers and accessories (power barkes, power steering and A/C if you want any of those) sorted out.

40kW is a lot for an EV car I think, most of them are half that or maybe even less. It's not that bad really if you only need 100km/h max speed, a Starion is capable of doing ~200km/h with 120kW.

Nord72 · Post by **Nord72** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:39 pm

decoy wrote:i guess if your working with 40kw a 1300kg car wouldn't be the most efficient starting point, but interesting none the less.

Ok, I've got your point, but Starion without engine and transm, clutch + other stuffs like abs and more with the additional weight of around 40kg AC motor
and the batteries (thinking about bike NiMh - 12V-6A*X) it would be under 1000 Kg.
Of course I need an AC controller system, but there are lots of solutions exists.

If you have any idea, share with us thanx.

Cheers,

Nord

Nord72 · Post by **Nord72** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:44 pm

AB wrote:I don't think the regeneration is worth the extra effort and expense. You'd need a way to convert from high voltage/high amperage DC to AC and then somehow create a recharging interface that works through the brake pedal but still allows the standard brakes to work under emergency brakeing. As far as I know no private individual has done this but I'd be very interested in seeing it if they have. It's best to stick to what has been done before so there's other people around that can give you advice. I don't think you'll be able to get away with batteries in just the engine bay either if your using lead-acid , all the EV's I've seen have had a huge battery aray, usually 20 or so deep cycle batteries that take up a lot of room. Usually you can only get away with 3 or 4 in the engine bay once you've got the motor, controllers and accessories (power barkes, power steering and A/C if you want any of those) sorted out.

40kW is a lot for an EV car I think, most of them are half that or maybe even less. It's not that bad really if you only need 100km/h max speed, a Starion is capable of doing ~200km/h with 120kW.

Thanx for your advices, 40kW is not so bad if I could able to implement the electronic system.
For a higher speed than 120 km/h (estimated) 4 pieces In-wheel Hub drives would be the best choice, but it needs damn expensive development.

Cya,

Nord

madeofmilo · Post by **madeofmilo** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:46 pm

hey mate, the startup current for a 40kw motor will be in the order of 800 - 1000amps. And as the voltage drops which your DC batteries will then current increases.

To get batteries to supply 800 - 1000 startup amps and running of 10 - 100amps is just too much, they would weigh an absolute tonne!

I'm not saying it can't be done, but there are probably better ways of doing it,
for instance. Buy a very effiecient 500cc diesel motor. Instead of gearbox run into a alternator 200 - 400amps ish. At a constant speed it will get amazing economy, maybe 500 - 1L hour. They run you ac/dc motors off that. But using a big fat heavy starion probably isn't the bast way. you would want something like a little mazda 323 or something.

Hope this helps.

Dave

Junkers · Post by **Junkers** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:08 pm

I think the modified aerial atom in that video was producing around 12 times the power your planning on running in a car that weighs half the starions weight. Cool idea though, would have great braking aswell.

Nord72 · Post by **Nord72** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:58 am

madeofmilo wrote:hey mate, the startup current for a 40kw motor will be in the order of 800 - 1000amps. And as the voltage drops which your DC batteries will then current increases.

To get batteries to supply 800 - 1000 startup amps and running of 10 - 100amps is just too much, they would weigh an absolute tonne!

I'm not saying it can't be done, but there are probably better ways of doing it,
for instance. Buy a very effiecient 500cc diesel motor. Instead of gearbox run into a alternator 200 - 400amps ish. At a constant speed it will get amazing economy, maybe 500 - 1L hour. They run you ac/dc motors off that. But using a big fat heavy starion probably isn't the bast way. you would want something like a little mazda 323 or something.

Hope this helps.

Dave

Thanx Dave,

Your idea is fine and it could be useable with burnt oil (from the kichen).
I thought this way with a diesel aggregator (which has electronics as well)

But the basic solution would be a pure EV Starion.
Not just to save the planet, but for experimenting with permanent magnets.
I've been found some interesting home-projects with this kinda "self-running" engines, of course I'm also sceptic about 'em but
every innovation needs the provement first.

So actually I have only the main hardware, at this point everything esle would be 'choices'.

Thanx for your support again,

Cheers,

Nord

Nord72 · Post by **Nord72** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:28 am

Hi all,

Here comes a home-made "self-running" ac motor for the sceptics what I found on a webforum, its quite amazing if its true :o

I'm still waiting for the ideas, advices.

Bye,

Nord

Video : http://www.sendspace.com/file/n2dmk0

Nord72 · Post by **Nord72** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:52 am

Junkers wrote:I think the modified aerial atom in that video was producing around 12 times the power your planning on running in a car that weighs half the starions weight. Cool idea though, would have great braking aswell.

Hi all!

Actually I'm slided down from a very cool chance to buying a local '89 GSR-VR 2600 ECi turbo.
I'm a bit sad, cose the owner decided to gave the car to the previous owner back for a reasonal price (higher than what I'd like to give him).
This business was a bit unfair cose he gave me his word : "its yours".
Anyway Starions are quite cheap here (except the rarities) it was bought for around 1400 EUR (350k Huf).

So I decided to get another model for my EV Project, it could be a '89 Probe GT...its around 250 EUR or a bit higher :)
I hope I could present some pictures soon about the car itself.
Anyway it has a factory Mazda F2T engine and manual trans...with LSD! :)
And its FWD (so the electronic motor could be mountable in the front area)

Have a good day,

Bye.

Nord

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