Another Soch VS Doch ?!

[quest]

I didn't read anything sinister imbedded in reds' comments.... but then, I'm only a visitor on the outside looking in and wouldn't sense any 'under tones'.
Many of us can benefit from reds' detail contribution, no question

Understandably some folks don't give away secrets after investing loads of R & D, especially since he's in that business.... but how much of that could be involved in this simple little motor ?
Lucky for us, that is almost unheard of on SQC.

Good to know info from Collier is all there for the asking.
Someone local to BTL will visit or get on the phone hopefully :)
Particularly about high boost power, cam & timing recommendations and the "bottlenecks".
Or one may have to take a vehicle or motor there to get 'that edge'.

4g64 posted details of his impressive moded truck 2.4L sohc.
Doesn't get much better than 350hp @14psi.
No camshaft specs tho.

[zippo]

well now that we have moved on from all that .
can we all get back to the never ending battle of what is better..

as i just love a good battle that never gets any where ..
at the end of the day we are talking about an engine that has the same displacement , the same volume the same name for f***s sake , so it is the same , no matter what is better , at the end of the day its the same ...........................

but lets keep the fire burning , im not fussed as i have no prefrence , sohc or twin , they can both make some good numbers , but one will make more , so here we go again

[groupAralliart]

When you consider Mitsubishi have spent years and millions of dollars developing their engines, as has Nissan and Toyota and Ferrari and BMW and Renault etc etc etc , it would be an absolute 'MUG who would debate a SOHC motor would be better, let alone as good as the high tech twin cam variants available on the market today. Whether you are comparing drivability/power/torque/design/fuel economy etc etc!! Agree with me? and don't start tossing up the price factor as you can purchase a non turbo 4g63 twin cam for under $400 complete nowadays. :D :D

[redzone]

^^^ which has the big port head and a better intake manifold to start from than the turbo twin cams...

[Sigve_B]

This thread realy has evolved.. :) lots of good stuff :beer
I`ve desided and are going Doch... :)

[zippo]

well it is now august and this has been going since april .....

5 months and the answer to the question asked has been around this forum for some time .

fact is better than fiction , but we all like to listen to a good story .....

Quickest Starions in Australia & NZ .....well until some one can build a quiker one than the current leader i think we have to agree that twin cam is much better , and from what i hear this engine is fairly plain , and low power out put ,

:beer ...............................

[enthuzed]

Redzone, your TD is going to be a corker!

Based on your approach with the Orange beast, then your widey will be awesome too, no doubt about it :)

Love your work Dave! :D
So, why are you in Queensland?
Hang on, why am I in Melbourne? :roll:

[quest]

LOTS of 8V heavy 4cyl 11 & 10sec street cars this side of the pond. I dunno what more one could ask from any 4cyl ?
My curiousity evolves around the 2L as I've not seen a single effort to paralell, say a "hi-strung" toyota 1.8, ford 2.3L or g54.
Only then can you even begin to speak on the limitations imo.
Add up the costs to either and it may surprise you.
example
Seen a couple 2L dohc staz swaps go 12s with t3/t4 turbos.
Then a TBI 2.6 goes 12s with only a $400 17C bolt-on upgrade & MAFT

While 1st gen dohc ports are big, mitsu switched to smaller ports, the cars got heavier & quicker. No big deal with a street car.
On high strung dohc, oe intake manifold normally ends up in the trash.
Likewise any oe cams will strangle... then expense enters the picture

[JD_Stazza_Brendan]

Difference with US and Australia is that you US guys actually have an aftermarket for your Starquests. May not be large but its bigger then our non-exsistant one. Only direct bolt on stuff we would have is cams and cam gear. Also remember our starions only had 125kw and only 60 or less came with intercoolers so in a worldwide sense Australia sorta got the bum deal when it came to Starions. At the most Australia has about 300-400 LSDs floating around.

Just to get a normal JA starion close to a later model US spec Starquest requires LSD, Cooler, Boost increase.

This is boom time for fast Starions, We have 3 workshops in Aus all with serious cars in the build. People are gonna look at the little Starion a whole not differently in next 5 years.

Anyway im off to go watch a SOHC 2L run 12s........ :D :D :D [/end stirring pot]

[redzone]

LOTS of 8V heavy 4cyl 11 & 10sec street cars this side of the pond. I dunno what more one could ask from any 4cyl ?
My curiousity evolves around the 2L as I've not seen a single effort to paralell, say a "hi-strung" toyota 1.8, ford 2.3L or g54.
Only then can you even begin to speak on the limitations imo.
Add up the costs to either and it may surprise you.
example
Seen a couple 2L dohc staz swaps go 12s with t3/t4 turbos.
Then a TBI 2.6 goes 12s with only a $400 17C bolt-on upgrade & MAFT

While 1st gen dohc ports are big, mitsu switched to smaller ports, the cars got heavier & quicker. No big deal with a street car.
On high strung dohc, oe intake manifold normally ends up in the trash.
Likewise any oe cams will strangle... then expense enters the picture

another factor involved other than what brendan stated in this situation is the fact that we only have around 20 million people living in australia, there are a LOT LESS people involved in building fast cars here than in the states, so obviously it takes longer to have a certain package developed to its potential.. seriously though u have to look at the price of the parts combination in the orange JA to appreciate how easy it is to pull power from them, every part other than the pistons is either stock or a low dollar "budget" brand part..

the '63 sohc is an easy engine to pull power from, so is the dohc. the '54 can be, but not so much here on this side of the world.. no support..

[redzone]

Redzone, your TD is going to be a corker!

Based on your approach with the Orange beast, then your widey will be awesome too, no doubt about it :)

Love your work Dave! :D
So, why are you in Queensland?
Hang on, why am I in Melbourne? :roll:

haha, yeah the weather is so much better here :roll:

main difference between the widey build and the orange car is the widey i'm not gonna be so shy buying nice gear for it.. have already got a GT3076R, venolia pistons, eagle rods, metal head gasket, twin cam motor, RX7 box etc all sitting here waiting patiently for it. wont be a monster combination, but should see somewhere around 400hp at the wheels reliably.

can someone please send me some time? time would be nice....

[quest]

don't even need an aftermarket or 'support' to wring 'big power' from any motor.
Recipee all the same
Heck, our fastest street staz runs the stock cam.
Custom mani, quality tune, cooler/piping, etc... all basicly similar
Plus a sensible sized (20g or 50trim t3/4) turbo @25-30psi is a must... and of course the KEY ingredient; someone willing to "raise the bar".

Lack of an afermarket certainly makes us resourceful

[JD_Stazza_Brendan]

Starions dont appeal to many people here due to the lack of aftermarket. We are flooded with Supras, Skylines, Silvias who have millions of parts available at a low cost, thats why they are popular.

Most people wanting a turbo car would rather buy the Skyline or Silvia for 10k and spend another 5k on it and have a quickish car.

Whereas buying a decent starion for around 5k requires about another 10k to get to the same level as the 15k Silvia would and its still going to be a 25 year old car.

Remember most of our Starions are 82/83 so they are about 5 years older then most of the US starquests.

[enthuzed]

can someone please send me some time? time would be nice....

As per your request, please see attachment.

Sending you time now. Okay...now. N-N-Now. Too late, moment has passed...

[quest]

Understand what you guys saying with the "numbers", but it only takes
a single 'curious' individual behind such an effort I feel.
I'd think turbo G54s are even less common than a staz, yet seen a few
10sec hairy beasts from down your way