I'm sick of running rich

Chris 83JA · Post by **Chris 83JA** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 12:57 pm

As anyone who's been on a staz cruise with me would know - my car runs very rich on boost. It seems to be fine off boost, but as soon as i hit 4000rpm and .5+ bar, the black smoke starts comming out. The MAP sensor has allways shown about .7 or .8 bar on full boost, a bit more than the factory settings, but I allways assumed this to be because of a tampered with or worn out wastegate/rod, but now i'm wondering if it's just reading it a bit wrong.
I replaced all the O-rings in the map sensor about 6 months ago, but that didn't fix the problem. I've tried leaning the mixtures, but to no avail either.
The map sensor seems to work fine, though sometimes when i first turn the car on in the morning, the needle will swing to -0.5 instead of 1 (ignition on, car off), but after a few seconds it would fix itself.

A couple of days ago it started running really $hit - the map sensor was reading everything a few psi too high - the needle would swing to .3 or so BAR when the ignition was on, engine off, and would idle at close to (an indicated) 0 bar,and as a result, it coughed and splutted and blew lots of nice black smoke. I replaced the hose to the map sensor from the tb, that didn't fix it, so i took the hose off, and cut it down until it was as short as possible, and then it (map sensor) started to work fine again (apart from the normal running rich).

Is there anything else I can do, any other hoses i should replace? I don't know anything about mucking with the timing, and don't have one of those fancy lights, though if Austarion people tell me how to do things, then i'm allways willing to give it a shot. Any other ideas?

Please help me, it's embarrasing to blow someone away at the lights only to leave them covered in a cloud of black smoke.

I don't mind running a bit rich - it protects my engine, but this is just ridiculous.

Thanks, sorry for the long post.

p.s. the timing was fine according to my mechanic about a year ago, when it was still blowing black smoke.
I run 98octane pulp in my car - maybe it's been tuned for unleaded? would that explain it?

scum · Post by **scum** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:28 pm

there is a little vac line on the TB. its about 40mm long and bent in a 90deg angle. (i think, never looked at my 2.0l motor much, but the cordz had one) this is the vac line to the fuel preassure reg, make sure it is not cracked, blocked, pinched shut and also make sure you can hook a bit of line up to the TB side and blow air into the TB without heaps of resistance. there will be a little. also make sure you CANT blow air into or suck out of the reg itself. failing this, CRANK THE BOOST UP TO COMPINSATE!!! WOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chris 83JA · Post by **Chris 83JA** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 4:12 pm

hehe, i like that second suggestion..

I also have reason to believe my injectors leak slightly, but that would make much of a difference at full boost, would it?

ProZac · Post by **ProZac** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:15 am

are you absoltuley sure they are the right injectors for the engine/computer?

Powerslave · Post by **Powerslave** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 1:08 am

The map sensor on any starion open loop ECU (ie no o2 sensor) is a weak link. Depending on what the map sensor is 'reading' , the ecu uses this sginal to calculate the extra injector duty cycle to keep it from leaning in or out. Try removing the map sensor PCB , and resolder any solder joint you find. This seems to be a common fault.

Good luck.

Chris 83JA · Post by **Chris 83JA** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 1:58 pm

ProZac: it's all standard there, i doubt it's been touched before I had the car.

Powerslave: Tell me why i had to be a powerslave?

I don't know much about electronics, so i haven't a clue what you're talking about, but i'll take the car to my dad who's an electronical engineer and tell him what you said. Thanks.

Powerslave · Post by **Powerslave** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 9:26 pm

Good to see someone remembers Iron Maiden.

SpidersWeb · Post by **SpidersWeb** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 12:43 am

The stock boost guage is measured in kg/cm2 not bar. Although very similar there is a difference. Mine comes up 0.8 when the boost guage reads 9psi. Which is all factory settings.

I'd say that the DASH ECU just puts more fuel than required in on boost, and the 98 octane makes it run a tad too rich.

My friends run their cars rich intentially, helps prevent detonation and generates a little more power. However they only blow a bit of black smoke between gears after redline, the black smoke doesn't roar out while on boost @ 5000. Would be awesome if you had a flame thrower kit!

Also if you have a very tiny air leak, at higher boost it may slightly open, causing the AFM to give a slightly false reading which causes the car to put extra fueling in. I doubt this but just a possibility anyway.

Electronic fixes may include an Apexi SAFC-II or a full ECU. ECU will be my first upgrade on my car, can't do much without it.

Camotec · Post by **Camotec** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:12 am

Can you run an SAFC on a Starion with the standard ECU?? then I can run all the new hiflow intake stuff and not worry about the ignition and a shit load cheaper :)

Tell me its so!!

SpidersWeb · Post by **SpidersWeb** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:24 am

The only thing that would prevent this, is if the SAFC required an ECU that uses a MAP sensor. So have a look on the APEXi website, and see if it will work with the AFM.

If it supports an AFM, then it should just plug in.

Note: S-AFC is used to modify your fuel maps by adjusting the signal fed to the ECU, its not an actual fuel controller. So it wont modify anything under the bonnet, just allows you to run richer or leaner by pushing a few buttons inside the cabin.

starion84 · Post by **starion84** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:50 am

my map sensor used to playup similar to what u said the car would run really rough and the other boost gauge would read 2psi while the factory one would read 5 or 6, to fix it i just gave the map sensor a tap and it would be fine for a few weeks. i checked it out inside for any broken solder joints but it looked ok.

Chris 83JA · Post by **Chris 83JA** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:48 pm

Powerslave: too bad they don't remember us aussies

i can hear a slight turbo his when accelerating and my windows are open. Can't hear it with windows shut unless i try really hard. I thought this was pretty normal, still a lot quieter than most skylines.

Powerslave · Post by **Powerslave** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:03 am

Chris : Yeah , Rod Smallwood promised they would come next tour... we'll see :(

My turbo has become decidedly noisy recently too. I took the pipes off and checked for endfloat and any slap in the turbine , none to be found , My car is not burning any oil , and there is no power loss. How bizzarre :P

:drool: :roll:

:D :( :o

rofl :glare: :roll:

:beer

Chris 83JA · Post by **Chris 83JA** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:40 pm

maybe a leak on the induction side? cracked hose or something?

my boost guage started fuking up again, centreing to around .3kg/cm3 when key turned..

scum · Post by **scum** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:46 pm

my boost gauge reads nothing when the car is off, and still nothing when the key is turned "on".... mabey i need an engine? do you think this will sort it out? has anyone tried this?

I'm sick of running rich

I'm sick of running rich

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