Doesn't matter what tbi staz you have, the Emanage has *proven* it will get *substantially* more power out of it. No point in that huh ?
Alternately, lots of TBI 2.6s here run the $200 MAFT. Tunable fuel computer + GM mafs; Produce crisp performing, tire smoking, hard pulling street staz with excellent driveability.
Call them 'options'. Ever heard of those ? Good to have.
Enjoy it *immediately*. Can mpi? Hell no
Sell the whole 'tbi package' after you've had your fun, like everything else. Understand that concept ? Its an old one.
Didn't know the 334 car drag it since the recent Emanage dyno.
TBI 2.6s with less than 334/387 has run mid-hi 12s. Thats heavier street u.s. widebodys, no piggy, no spray. Fastest 12A car here went 12.8, no spray ... and your point is... ?
Since you clearly missed the boat, notice that I presented proven modifications that can be applied in stages with great results.
Absolutely nothing wrong with a daily driven good running staz with a proper fuctioning oe dizzy/ignition curve. Lots of them out there.
What kinda 'drag racer' crap are you on about ? So you're saying that redzone staz street manners stinks ??
Read the 1st paragraph above again.
Plus you've never 'tweaked' your oe dizzy ignition curve, it appears.
One street 2.6 here, imported ec21 a few years ago. Novice d.i.y. tuned (first standalone). Drove thousands of highway/city miles, dragged 12.4sec on a mere 13psi!! Tons of low end torque caused lots of wheelspin problems.
Hamk ec21 features don't compare ? Does it look like 'features' bothered this car any ?
Sure we'd like to have the ultimate, but there is a broad range of options in between to satisfy a wider range of enthusiasts.
UK MPI Project - Some Q's and Advice Pls!!
The issue is to tweak the OEM Distributor here, unless you have done it yourself is fairly expensive, $300min. Now finding someone in the UK to do it, is going to be even harder then here in Australia since the Starion distributor is almost identical to the Cordia one which we got in tens of thousands here and as such there was development with re-graphing distributors. To my knowledge, they sold less Cordia's than Starions in the UK.......
So for the 200 Pounds it will at the min cost to tune the stock dizzy, his best bet is just to go with programmable Ignition
The only issue I have with TBI is that 90 turn fuel/air have to do at the bottom to then head into the runners, if thats remoulded with a nice curve in their, then the difference between TBI & MPI shouldn't be more than 5% :beer
So for the 200 Pounds it will at the min cost to tune the stock dizzy, his best bet is just to go with programmable Ignition
The only issue I have with TBI is that 90 turn fuel/air have to do at the bottom to then head into the runners, if thats remoulded with a nice curve in their, then the difference between TBI & MPI shouldn't be more than 5% :beer
Computer games don't affect kids I mean if PacMan affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music :D
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RiceThief
- my mangina paid for my staz
- Posts: 2129
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:23 pm
- Location: Brisbane
Quest are you stupid or can you not read, which one is it? The guy wants to convert to mpi, so why would he want to spend money on a emanage, get it installed, get it tuned only to have to pull it out so he can have a computer to run in mpi. Im all for options but that is just plan stupid, wasting time and money on something you dont need to, ever heard of that? Sell the TBI setup you say, last time i tried selling something second hand i got less than what i paid brand new, thats not including the installation and tuning cost. New items costing more than old ones, its a pretty easy concept to understand and a pretty old one, probably from the dawn of when man decided to trade a barter with each other.
The point im trying to show with redzone's car is you dont need to spend money on the emanage and get good times with your starion and its better to save up for a fuel and ign computer in the meantime until you convert to mpi. Its not hard to understand since i did state that fact in my post, again if you actually read it you would have understood.
When did I say redzone's staz street manners stink, point that out anywhere in my post and I'll find bin laden for you. Fact is with a fuel only computer your car will drive mostly like a stock starion, the road manners does not stink but its still something from the 80's, sure the road manners doesnt stink but theres been over 2 decades of improvement in this area, drive any new cars today to see improvements over the starion dizzy setup.
Again you need to read my post about the hawk ec21 and have an idea before commenting. If i told you there is a ecu with twice the injector outputs, twice the igntion outputs, twice the number of user definable outputs, 2.5 times the number of load points of the hawk ec21 at the same price which would you choose? Using your reasoning you would choose the hawk ec21 because its features didnt bother this street 2.6? Ok i suppose you could always sell it later as a package after you had your fun and get your money back.
Its not about the ultimate setup but rather what you are expecting from your setup and doing it right the first time and not wasting money, as I said, i've run with both a fuel only computer and a fuel and ign computer and given the close cost of running both its better to save your money and have full control, this is my experience and in the end its not my money that is being spent so do what you like.
The point im trying to show with redzone's car is you dont need to spend money on the emanage and get good times with your starion and its better to save up for a fuel and ign computer in the meantime until you convert to mpi. Its not hard to understand since i did state that fact in my post, again if you actually read it you would have understood.
When did I say redzone's staz street manners stink, point that out anywhere in my post and I'll find bin laden for you. Fact is with a fuel only computer your car will drive mostly like a stock starion, the road manners does not stink but its still something from the 80's, sure the road manners doesnt stink but theres been over 2 decades of improvement in this area, drive any new cars today to see improvements over the starion dizzy setup.
Again you need to read my post about the hawk ec21 and have an idea before commenting. If i told you there is a ecu with twice the injector outputs, twice the igntion outputs, twice the number of user definable outputs, 2.5 times the number of load points of the hawk ec21 at the same price which would you choose? Using your reasoning you would choose the hawk ec21 because its features didnt bother this street 2.6? Ok i suppose you could always sell it later as a package after you had your fun and get your money back.
Its not about the ultimate setup but rather what you are expecting from your setup and doing it right the first time and not wasting money, as I said, i've run with both a fuel only computer and a fuel and ign computer and given the close cost of running both its better to save your money and have full control, this is my experience and in the end its not my money that is being spent so do what you like.
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Glen GSR III
- guess its me thats broke
- Posts: 581
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:34 pm
- Location: Toowoomba, Queensland
Guys relax, quest is just misunderstood. I'm assuming he assumed a few things, jumped to conclusions and started defending like his life was on the line :P :D rofl
A modified Distributor will perform almost aswell as a programmable Ignition/Timing setup, but the cost of re-modifying the distributor, everytime you change your set-up as opposed to just changing numbers on a programmable ECU, will leave you in no doubt as to which is the cheapest and smartest choice :beer
A modified Distributor will perform almost aswell as a programmable Ignition/Timing setup, but the cost of re-modifying the distributor, everytime you change your set-up as opposed to just changing numbers on a programmable ECU, will leave you in no doubt as to which is the cheapest and smartest choice :beer
Computer games don't affect kids I mean if PacMan affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music :D
Rice
Since u r a disrespectful punk, I'll address you accordingly.
The thread starts with someone in the same shoe as the majority of us who wanted to eventually go mpi, but short on funds. Until then, we found ways to modify tbi *economically* that will perform/run circles around many mpi, INCLUDING yours. Fact.
These daily drivers do not suffer driveability issues, and are in fact crisp performers that can get good mileage if driven accordingly. They are not 1/4 mile stars, so stop making your foolish assumptions.
We've been "wasting money" doing it for years. You seem too much of a jackass to understand & accept that this huge 'gray area' exists. Cry all u want.
yes, Rice we're ALL stupid over here!
After you've enjoyed ANY product, what arse expects to recover ALL his money when selling ? I see you're too dumb to know better.
FYI over here, piggybacks, dizzy tweaks and even standalone, installed AND tuned by enthusiasts themselves. Rarely not. WHO is stupid now ?
yes, Rice we're ALL stupid over here!
Obviously, you've NEVER heard of folks upgrading to a 16g,17c, 18g turbo etc.. and enjoying a low 13/mid 12sec tbi *daily driver*, or are we ALL stupid for not commiting $$$$$$traight to mpi and 4/5/600hp turbo setup$$$, and not "waste money" ?
Idiots like u always whine about "doing it right". That does NOT mean YOUR way suits everybody, fool. Get over your dam self.
You will NEVER change the way lots of SMART starquestors have been modifying/enjoying their vehicles, period.... they couldn't care less what you think.
And NO, you're not for options, perhaps someone else is.
yes, Rice we're ALL stupid over here.
I simply told u what an enthusiast HAS DONE with the ec21. Not ideas.
>>"does that apply to a street driven car? Whats 'nice' about having ign control is day to day street driving, that is driving in peak hour traffic continually stop starting, hill starts, part throttle application, throttle response, highway driving. Sorry but I dont live my life a 1/4 mile at a time "
Thats brilliant. I wonder how any street driven car could ever function without it, including redzone :) I'm well aware of the benefits, but you exaggerate that just like the ecu features example and make far too many assumptions.
Since u r a disrespectful punk, I'll address you accordingly.
The thread starts with someone in the same shoe as the majority of us who wanted to eventually go mpi, but short on funds. Until then, we found ways to modify tbi *economically* that will perform/run circles around many mpi, INCLUDING yours. Fact.
These daily drivers do not suffer driveability issues, and are in fact crisp performers that can get good mileage if driven accordingly. They are not 1/4 mile stars, so stop making your foolish assumptions.
We've been "wasting money" doing it for years. You seem too much of a jackass to understand & accept that this huge 'gray area' exists. Cry all u want.
yes, Rice we're ALL stupid over here!
After you've enjoyed ANY product, what arse expects to recover ALL his money when selling ? I see you're too dumb to know better.
FYI over here, piggybacks, dizzy tweaks and even standalone, installed AND tuned by enthusiasts themselves. Rarely not. WHO is stupid now ?
yes, Rice we're ALL stupid over here!
Obviously, you've NEVER heard of folks upgrading to a 16g,17c, 18g turbo etc.. and enjoying a low 13/mid 12sec tbi *daily driver*, or are we ALL stupid for not commiting $$$$$$traight to mpi and 4/5/600hp turbo setup$$$, and not "waste money" ?
Idiots like u always whine about "doing it right". That does NOT mean YOUR way suits everybody, fool. Get over your dam self.
You will NEVER change the way lots of SMART starquestors have been modifying/enjoying their vehicles, period.... they couldn't care less what you think.
And NO, you're not for options, perhaps someone else is.
yes, Rice we're ALL stupid over here.
I simply told u what an enthusiast HAS DONE with the ec21. Not ideas.
>>"does that apply to a street driven car? Whats 'nice' about having ign control is day to day street driving, that is driving in peak hour traffic continually stop starting, hill starts, part throttle application, throttle response, highway driving. Sorry but I dont live my life a 1/4 mile at a time "
Thats brilliant. I wonder how any street driven car could ever function without it, including redzone :) I'm well aware of the benefits, but you exaggerate that just like the ecu features example and make far too many assumptions.
toys,
Vastly different cultures for the most part, I'm not misunderstood. We're all stupid. Fact is, we think nothing like u guys, so our approach and results are very disimilar. We've met and often exceded our expectations.
Same way I've read detail post on checking your ignition advance, right here on this very forum.... same way u modify your curve d.i.y.
We don't need to run to the dyno and hire a tuner for every little mod. Life would be miserable just thinking if I were ever that helpless.
side note
It is blatantly clear that 'u.s. hate' is alive and well here. So biased that it affects the thought process and behaviour of folks that I would generally have considered intelligent.
Introduce anything different than the norm, and the shit flies! Not the place for it, definitely.
I would think, as enthusiats you'd be more receptive to *proven* options and a alternative way of doing things, but thats certainly not the case.
Waste of time mentioning them, really
Vastly different cultures for the most part, I'm not misunderstood. We're all stupid. Fact is, we think nothing like u guys, so our approach and results are very disimilar. We've met and often exceded our expectations.
Same way I've read detail post on checking your ignition advance, right here on this very forum.... same way u modify your curve d.i.y.
We don't need to run to the dyno and hire a tuner for every little mod. Life would be miserable just thinking if I were ever that helpless.
side note
It is blatantly clear that 'u.s. hate' is alive and well here. So biased that it affects the thought process and behaviour of folks that I would generally have considered intelligent.
Introduce anything different than the norm, and the shit flies! Not the place for it, definitely.
I would think, as enthusiats you'd be more receptive to *proven* options and a alternative way of doing things, but thats certainly not the case.
Waste of time mentioning them, really
AFFORD.
IF you can afford it, go full programmable. If you can't, don't. If you wish to have a go and program it yourself, do so. If you can afford dyno time and somebody else to tune it, do so.
As long as the owner of the car is happy with the result, and if funds permit he/she wishes to go to the next stage then so be it. If you have to spend more money, you kick yourself, but at the time it may not have been possible.
We are all barking up the same tree, but from different sides. But we are all still barking.
And we all still love the UK and America. And Slovenia, Bulgaria, Japan, Iceland and Sweden (and anyone else I forgot)
IF you can afford it, go full programmable. If you can't, don't. If you wish to have a go and program it yourself, do so. If you can afford dyno time and somebody else to tune it, do so.
As long as the owner of the car is happy with the result, and if funds permit he/she wishes to go to the next stage then so be it. If you have to spend more money, you kick yourself, but at the time it may not have been possible.
We are all barking up the same tree, but from different sides. But we are all still barking.
And we all still love the UK and America. And Slovenia, Bulgaria, Japan, Iceland and Sweden (and anyone else I forgot)
Quest, I can put up the article on how to modify the Cordia/Starion distributor Ignition curve....but to modify the right timing curve onto it, the user needs to play around with their base timing and with an amplified mic, listen for when knock comes in during VAC/Boost, then re-set the base timing and test again to draw up a new Timing curve to then go about and modify the wheel. They also need to know how much advance/retard the standard Staz distributor sets through VAV/Boost to calculate everything correctly.........It is a very time consuming job and puts us at risk of speeding fines especially when running 4th gear into High-boost. Sometimes we would just rather pay someone to do it all for us while we go on about our regular lifes working and just cut our loses by being able to drive the staz sooner.......
Computer games don't affect kids I mean if PacMan affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music :D
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Glen GSR III
- guess its me thats broke
- Posts: 581
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:34 pm
- Location: Toowoomba, Queensland
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RiceThief
- my mangina paid for my staz
- Posts: 2129
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:23 pm
- Location: Brisbane
Quest if Im a punk then you must be the village idiot. You need to read before you type your shit cause you keep on proving how stupid you really are.
These are the facts, widebody uk wants to convert mpi, has gone through the motions of buying the manifold and wants to know a suitable computer to use. If Im dumb, what would you be if you arent smart enough to read what people want and give them options that they are not after. What arse would go out and buy a piggy back computer to put on his TBI when he's converting to mpi. I dont even know where you got the idea that I expected to recover all their money when they sell a product secondhand, again read what people write.
Whats the point of modifying the TBI economically when hes already in the motions of going MPI why would u go out and buy a piggy back computer when its not suitable for the job that he wants, how is that not wasting money?
Whats the point you are trying to say when that all piggybacks are installed by enthusiasts? So its wasting time as well as money having to install the piggyback ecu then having to take it out again cause widebody uk wants to go mpi? Pointless fact: FYI i installed my mpi setup and ecu but i didnt tune it myself so im an enthusiast too.
Again i dont see the point of your post about upgrading to different trims for the turbo. I must be only half stupid cause i havent committed to a 4/5/600 hp turbo setup. Why would you want to do it my way, i wasted money buying a fuel only setup and then installing a fuel and ign computer afterwards, take a lesson for my mistake. Doing it right is not buying an emange when you want to go mpi and wasting your money, doing it right is weighing up whether you want to buy a fuel only computer or a fuel and ignition computer, doing it right is if you can not afford a fuel and ignition computer to buy a fuel only computer that is upgradable to fuel and ignition later on like you suggested in an early post. Where did I say that you need to go mpi and you need a big turbo setup, again learn to read or maybe you need glasses. Im all for options, getting an emange is not an option for widebody uk, for someone else it could be, not once have i put down the TBI setup, actually i have given it a good rapt with redzone's example. As i said in my previous post, you can do as redzone did and keep the tbi injection and just get a fuel cut defender and make sure your air ratios are right and your not pinging, and you have a car capable of 13.9 sec 1/4s, that way you can save up for the ecu of your choice in the mean time, not buy a piggy back computer when you intend to go mpi.
When have i exaggerated any ecu features, compare the hawk ec21 features to the ems stinger, the stinger has all the features i mention and more for approx $1000 aud, that is the same price as the hawk ec21.
PS - I do not have a hate for the us or have any bias of any form. There is no reason why you shouldnt give these proven options to fellow forum members, it will apply to different forum members but just not in this case.
Oh yeah bring on round 3. :D
These are the facts, widebody uk wants to convert mpi, has gone through the motions of buying the manifold and wants to know a suitable computer to use. If Im dumb, what would you be if you arent smart enough to read what people want and give them options that they are not after. What arse would go out and buy a piggy back computer to put on his TBI when he's converting to mpi. I dont even know where you got the idea that I expected to recover all their money when they sell a product secondhand, again read what people write.
Whats the point of modifying the TBI economically when hes already in the motions of going MPI why would u go out and buy a piggy back computer when its not suitable for the job that he wants, how is that not wasting money?
Whats the point you are trying to say when that all piggybacks are installed by enthusiasts? So its wasting time as well as money having to install the piggyback ecu then having to take it out again cause widebody uk wants to go mpi? Pointless fact: FYI i installed my mpi setup and ecu but i didnt tune it myself so im an enthusiast too.
Again i dont see the point of your post about upgrading to different trims for the turbo. I must be only half stupid cause i havent committed to a 4/5/600 hp turbo setup. Why would you want to do it my way, i wasted money buying a fuel only setup and then installing a fuel and ign computer afterwards, take a lesson for my mistake. Doing it right is not buying an emange when you want to go mpi and wasting your money, doing it right is weighing up whether you want to buy a fuel only computer or a fuel and ignition computer, doing it right is if you can not afford a fuel and ignition computer to buy a fuel only computer that is upgradable to fuel and ignition later on like you suggested in an early post. Where did I say that you need to go mpi and you need a big turbo setup, again learn to read or maybe you need glasses. Im all for options, getting an emange is not an option for widebody uk, for someone else it could be, not once have i put down the TBI setup, actually i have given it a good rapt with redzone's example. As i said in my previous post, you can do as redzone did and keep the tbi injection and just get a fuel cut defender and make sure your air ratios are right and your not pinging, and you have a car capable of 13.9 sec 1/4s, that way you can save up for the ecu of your choice in the mean time, not buy a piggy back computer when you intend to go mpi.
When have i exaggerated any ecu features, compare the hawk ec21 features to the ems stinger, the stinger has all the features i mention and more for approx $1000 aud, that is the same price as the hawk ec21.
PS - I do not have a hate for the us or have any bias of any form. There is no reason why you shouldnt give these proven options to fellow forum members, it will apply to different forum members but just not in this case.
Oh yeah bring on round 3. :D
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