widebody motor high comp high cam spec

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MrBishi
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Post by MrBishi »

kit wrote:
Also Anthony you are not pissed at me for not buying your jb for $8k because i picked one up for a $1k with the D60 option mint interior great mags with new tyres and you know i'm only having fun
rofl Yeah you suck Gary! You didn't buy my car & I hate you now. rofl

Either motor makes similar HP for similar $$. Personally I think you need the extra cubes & torque in the heavyweight widebody, but many will disagree.
Refer this threads for engine weights- difference may be less than you think;
http://austarion.com/forums/view ... ght=weight
4G63 - 87kg
4G54 - 107kg
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cheaterparts
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Post by cheaterparts »

redzone wrote:geez look what happens when i make a friendly suggestion... all hell breaks loose!

i mean u gotta look at the reasons mitsubishi put the 2.6 in:

A: wank factor - bigger motor :wanker

B: emission controls strangled the 2.0 - in the heavier widey they needed all the bottom end they could get 2 haul its fat ass around. not a problem for the 2.0 with the technology available today though. and if ya want cubes - hello 4G64......

C: they wanted it to handle like an american car so they needed more weight up the front... LOL


D:and as far as the yanks getting good hp out of the 4G54 astron, man u can get a frikkin volkswagen beetle doing low 10`s in street trim these days u can do that to any car any motor really, but the chain drive 4G54 is a longer heavier engine that puts more weight in front of the axle line therefore making it handle like an american car and has a LOT LESS performance parts available off the shelf CHEAP! it might be financially viable to do it in the states but not so over here.. and look at what engine`s in the buschur racing car.. i see no chains there!

E:i know u wouldnt be able 2 do it now woody but all i`m saying is in the future i wouldn`t plan on spending mega bucks on the astron sure little things here n there all good but if u want your car to be the best it can be then u cant go past the legendary 4G63.

i mean if the astron was so good then the lancer evolutions etc would have a twin cam version of the astron in em wouldn`t they! they wouldn`t have developed the 4G63 like they have. a 24 year (and counting) engine lifespan where the basic architecture remains unchanged is amazing in this day and age...

look to the uk and to japan where the very limited run 2 litre widebody`s are by far the most sought after examples.

i rest my case. thats my opinion anyways! :beer
I wasn't going to buy in here but here goes

A: I dont know if it the bigger the better but bigger makes more power as a rule ( or maybe I'm a wanker )

B:emission controls strangled the 2.0 - I think it would have been easier to clean up the smaller motor
and if ya want cubes - hello 4G64...... or destroke a 2.6 to 2.4
or bore and stroke a 2.6 to 2.8

C:the strange thing here is that most would not think about putting an intercooler the size of a tassie in front of the axle line
it has me beat how these cars steer with all that weight over the F/end

D:there are a couple of 4 cyl cars running mid 7s in the states strangly enough running 4G54s
(LOT LESS performance parts available off the shelf CHEAP! it might be financially viable to do it in the states but not so over here..)
another thing that weird is that standard magna parts are performance parts in the states ( heads ,efi )

E:as for spending mega bucks I wouldn't ether but from my findings with the 4G54 is that they are cheap to mod
and what is going in my staz

thats my opinion
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redzone
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Post by redzone »

well ok each to their own i suppose.... :roll: i unrest my case....

i just dont know why u would actually want an astron in a performance car, i mean any revs over 5 grand (and thats being generous) and they feel like they`re gonna explode. a big block chev revs better than an astron! my stock unbalanced 4g63 8 valve loves 7000 rpm and has done for 60000km and counting.. the 4G54 is one of the most coarse lethargic rattly whiny dunger 4 cylinder engines ever made, right up there with the holden starfire four. maybe if u like big cubes and bottom end torque u should be driving a V8, hell there aint no substitute for cubic inches, right????

of course capacity is a CHEAP way to increase horsepower and torque but with current technology u can make mega bottom end torque and responsiveness out of smaller and smaller engines.... my brothers EVO3 is a good example of that. hi flowed TD05H makes awesome bottom end on the 2lt.

in fact if u really had your heart set on running a 2.6+ litre turbo engine, i`d still suggest ripping out the magna motor and installing either an ISUZU 4ZE1 2.6 8 valve or the slightly larger toyota 3RZ-FE 16 valve dohc engine, these are both good engines that respond REALLY well to the usual mods.. look at james palomara`s rodeo ute (over 500hp at the wheels at horsepower heroes - 4ZE1) and the u.s. celica pro rwd drag cars(3RZ-FE with 1500hp).. both still use stock block and crank aswell.

in the uk the widebody was available firstly as a 2lt then in 2.6 form. the 2lt narrowbody is MUCH more highly sought after in the uk as they go better and handle better. just ask steve!!!!!! they changed to the 2.6 lt as the smaller engine was, as i said, strangled by the emission controls. not to say that the 2.6 wasn`t strangled aswell, but obviously with the bigger capacity it made LESS of a difference. they even promoted the 2.6 as being a more environmentally friendly alternative, have u seen the `ITS GREEN` ads they put out? obviously the same deal in america, tho they had the 2.6 waaaaaaaayyyyy earlier in the narrowbodies as their california etc emission laws were and still are the toughest in the world.

and what the hell`s this about front mount intercoolers stuffing up the weight distribution? are you serious?! what size intercooler are u using? out of a mack truck? the point i was making about the 2.6`s weight issues is more to do with the length and height of the things compared to the compact 4G63, look at both from the side mounted over the front axle and you`ll see what i mean. higher centre of gravity, more forward centre of gravity for the 2.6.. more of the engine hangs over the axle centre line.

but all in all if you`ve made up your mind and have already put work into a 4G54 and dont mind settling for second best then all i can do is wish you well and good luck! :flush
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cheaterparts
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Post by cheaterparts »

redzone wrote: i just dont know why u would actually want an astron in a performance car, i mean any revs over 5 grand (and thats being generous) and they feel like they`re gonna explode. a big block chev revs better than an astron! my stock unbalanced 4g63 8 valve loves 7000 rpm and has done for 60000km and counting.. the 4G54 is one of the most coarse lethargic rattly whiny dunger 4 cylinder engines ever made

and what the hell`s this about front mount intercoolers stuffing up the weight distribution? are you serious?!

but all in all if you`ve made up your mind and have already put work into a 4G54 and dont mind settling for second best
why would someone wont a 2.6 in a performance car ? maybe to win
I've been using a N/A 2.6 for 4 years in comp mainly hillclimb here in Vic
in a sigma spining 7000 + no probs
2004 aust hillclimb champ over 2000 improved production
at phillip island has run to 7000 in 5th front straight 3.9 diff
and no they dont feel like they are gunna explode if assembled properly

as for the comment on intercoolers it was tonge in cheak
but if you have a problem with handling fix the front end
more weight on the F/end will make a car under steer agreed
so dail in some more neg caster and toe out a bit more
its not that hard
turn 1 at phillip island is a 160 + corner on treaded tyres ( yoky ao32s )
starion F/E in the 4g54 sigma with no f/e grip probs

and yes my mind is made up
after getting a starion at the right price it seamed the logical thing to do to build a 2.6 turbo and it wont be hard to make it safe to 7500
I think I have most parts on the shelf

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Mr Ralliart
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Post by Mr Ralliart »

My only comment on the matter on the forum will be thus .


The Starion was designed to run Sirius series engine (4G63) .

It's even evident in the naming : STARION = STAR of orION . Sirius is

the name of the biggest and most well known Star in the Orion system.

The Starion was built to not only raise the profile of Mitsubishi worldwide ,

but to directly attack the U.S. market .

However , it was considered that in the land of 'CUBES' , a 2 ltr engine

would not be marketable therefore they decided to fit the biggest engine

available at the time which happened to be the 2.6 Astron .

Due to the extra weight of the later widebody models , it was decided to eventually use the 2.6 in all models as the extra low down torque would be more appreciated by the AVERAGE driver . It also saved costs as they were already developing the Eclipse and GTO by the late '80's .

As for which engine is better ? . . . .

Depends what you want , each to his own :wink:

Nuff said .
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redzone
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Post by redzone »

u have made a 4G54 rev to 7000 rpm regularly and not explode? i salute you, sensei! :beer






p.s. i still think i`m right. but thats just me. stick with what ya know! :wink:
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MrBishi
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Post by MrBishi »

Redzone,
From your posts I don't think you have been in a decent turbo 2.6 car. Next time you come down to the GC look me up and I'll take you for a drive. No I'm not talking about a stock widebody - ask Mr Ralliart about it :wink:
4G63 - 87kg
4G54 - 107kg
OLD FART
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4g63 verses astron

Post by OLD FART »

Hey fellows LOL LOL enjoying reading all your posts and taking the piss out of Woody Why dont you all come to Willowbank on Sunday to see Kittgo 4 a ride on the wild side with Old Fart at the autocross its free 2 spectate Woody luv your black wide body it looks great in my rear vision mirror :) :) :beer :beer :beer hope to see you all on sunday Pls ph me if u need info 0409729177 Dirt is for racing on 220 hp at wheels willbe intersting :D :D
I've had mine since 03 07 92
85 JB 2323cc DOHC 4G63
THE OLDER I GET THE FASTER I WAS
GROWING OLD IS MANDATORY GROWING UP IS OPTIONAL
OLD FART
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4g63 verses astron

Post by OLD FART »

Hey fellows LOL LOL enjoying reading all your posts and taking the piss out of Woody Why dont you all come to Willowbank on Sunday to see Kittgo 4 a ride on the wild side with Old Fart at the autocross its free 2 spectate Woody luv your black wide body it looks great in my rear vision mirror :) :) :beer :beer :beer hope to see you all on sunday Pls ph me if u need info 0409729177 Dirt is for racing on 220 hp at wheels willbe intersting :D :D
I've had mine since 03 07 92
85 JB 2323cc DOHC 4G63
THE OLDER I GET THE FASTER I WAS
GROWING OLD IS MANDATORY GROWING UP IS OPTIONAL
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mrb1
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Post by mrb1 »

Well the 4G54 in my widebody revs to 6500 RPM no problem but it has the right stuff on it. However it is a harsh big lump compared to the 4G63. I don't really like it that much.
The weight/handling issue has been discussed in detail before.
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