Starion + hks 2835r

[Cookiemonster]

why doesnt anyone do a twin cam 4g63 conversion on starions???

Lots of people have done it. There are a couple on this board.

Cause it a bloody stupid idea!!!!!

Not stupid... just not cheap.

Then amount of money u waste you could have bored out the pistons, picked up stonger cams, have a fat multipoint setup, and some rx7 injectors. plus a decent fuel pump put in. Maybe even a water injection setup.....

$10,000 spent on a SOHC vs $10,000 spend on a DOHC conversion and yes.. the SOHC will make more power. But the DOHC has a lot more scope for even more power when more money is invested in it.

With unlimited funds the modded-to-the-max DOHC will outperform a modded-to-the-max SOHC.

By the way NXTIME, it's a well know fact that in the first 3 gears below 5000rpm soch have more torque than doch, Dohc have more power = kw's.

I'll try find a dyno who can print out a torque run wif my sohc and my friends dohc.....

Maybe that holds true for the two particular engines you have experience with.. but in general I would have to disagree with you.

[RiceThief]

Oh yer!

why doesnt anyone do a twin cam 4g63 conversion on starions???

Cause it a bloody stupid idea!!!!!

Then amount of money u waste you could have bored out the pistons, picked up stonger cams, have a fat multipoint setup, and some rx7 injectors. plus a decent fuel pump put in. Maybe even a water injection setup.....

By the way NXTIME, it's a well know fact that in the first 3 gears below 5000rpm soch have more torque than doch, Dohc have more power = kw's.

I'll try find a dyno who can print out a torque run wif my sohc and my friends dohc.....

Why dont alot of people put in the twin cam in the starion is that it is not a straight foward bolt on. All the modifications to make it fit cost $$$, thats why most people who do the twin cam conversions do it themselves.

A well know fact that sohc has more torque in the first three gears, where do you get your facts from? I would like to see you prove it and show me your theory rather than shooting at the mouth. You admit that dohc has more power yet you keep on saying that the sohc has more torque, thats impossible, why, as i said earlier power is derived from torque time revs, since the dohc and sohc share the same bore and stroke the dohc doesnt have any more rev potential than the sohc, thus the dohc makes more power through greater torque.

Finally if the sohc makes more torque than the dohc, you should quickly get in contact with ralli art since they must not know what they are doing running dohc on the wrc lancers. Since you need torque in rallying why dont they use sohc?

[Barney]

torque is not only bore and stroke.

its also cam timing, valve over lap. vave duration, ignition timing, intake manifold runner lengthes, compression ratio and so on.

A DOHC must have more potential as its able to breathe more air.

low down torque on a turbo car is only as good as how quick the turbo spools up.

one of my friends owns a geniune EVO4 un modified. as it sits it makes less power than my SOHC, but just driving it, you can tell the potential is far greater than the SOHC.

having said that i like to suprise people with early 80's technology.

Keep i cool Guys, dont get to hot and flustered

ASHLY

[tmz_99]

the truth is that in australia we got very limited runs of the DOHC engine, and hence australia's experience with modifying these engines isn't that high, I suggest people look to the US, NZ and japan to see what heavily modified DOHC engines can produce...

[toysrus]

but ur right!

[4g6beat]

I've got a fair bit of experience with dohc vr4 engines (250 kw+ at all4 wheels with bolt ons, daily driver) and i must say that turbo selection and gear/final drive ratios have a far greater impact on torque than anything else i've experimented.

My brothers car currently has hks 2835r as oposed to the t3/t4 combo he had before and it certainly spools up quicker (due to high bost setting) than the old turbo thus making more torque at lower revs (although theoretically the t3/t4 should be quicker :roll: ).

I've also sat in and driven a big 20g equiped vr4 and yet again the car delivers differently yet again.

Changing to a 4bolt evo gearbox on the vr4 yielded yet another diffrent set of delivery charecteristics.

Lets not forget mitsubishi designed and specified the engine for a diferent gearbox and hence the valve and cam timing would be better suited to the original gearbox. same goes for the sohc and the staz gearbox, maybe the staz engine is better matched to the staz gearbox at the lower revs.

All ican say is i very much doubt i'd get similar results if i bolted my brothers package to side of the starion as it can't flow as much not to mention other things dohc deliver over sohc, it's simple science. Thats not taking anything away form the sohc but there's a reason the dohc exists.

soory for the long boring post, thats my 2 cents anyway feel free to dump on my post as much as you like thats the whole point of forums. Discussion.
:D

[NXTIME]

toysrus,

I was present when the CYCLON Cordia ran a 12.06@121MPH (it was maroon back then). I also saw the blue twin cam Cordia run the 12.17 @113MPH. The problem with both those cars was traction, not power. If you reduce this factor buy using a RWD car, then the times will fall dramatically. I know that the quickest SOHC-engined Mitsubishi Street cars have run a 10.9 (2L Sirius) and a 10.4 (4G54 Astron). Quickest VR4 engine'd car is a pro drag car that runs 8 second 1/4's in Aus.

There are many factors that are involved. Anyone who has had any experiemce with 4G engines will tell you that the VR4 is the better engine. The SOHC has its limits, whereas the DOHC will far exceed those of the SOHC. For evidence, just take a look at all the DOHC engines making in excess of 300rw and aw kw's. Look further and you will find the quickest 4 cylinder 4wd (in the US) which runs an 8.72@155+MPH.

When you finish your SOHC, I will lend youmy slicks and you can run it at WSID and see what it's made of.

[NXTIME]

........

As for the fastest sohc a mate of mine with a lime green cordia with the same engine as mine (Cyclone Dash 12v SOHC) has pulled a best time of 11.7 on a G-tech as he was doing the full mile run and blew his gearbox.

All the mods he done were basic....

Cyclone Dash 12valve 2.0L SOHC
Microtech
Decent size bar and plate intercooler
Slightly larger turbo (think it was a td05h 20g
external wastgate
Forgies
and bored out to 2.4L

and he blew 2 gearboxes......

"Twin cams da shit man!!!!!!" :x :x :x

My car ran a 9 second time on a g-tech. Big deal. Take it to the strip then brag about times.

A stroker/bigger bottom end is a basic mod? rofl

BTW, you cannot bore a 2L out to a 2.4L.

[NXTIME]

By the way NXTIME, it's a well know fact that in the first 3 gears below 5000rpm soch have more torque than doch, Dohc have more power = kw's.

I'll try find a dyno who can print out a torque run wif my sohc and my friends dohc.....

The 'torque' figure that you speak of on a dyno sheet is not actually a direct engine torque figure, but rather an inidcative and relative "tractive effort" reading. This is often misinterpreted by many people and should be used to compare a car's tractive effort on the dyno run with that of other cars/runs.

[toysrus]

BTW, you cannot bore a 2L out to a 2.4L.

Are u sure about that? It can be done but no-one does cause it dramatically decreases the lifetime of your engine!

When you finish your SOHC, I will lend youmy slicks and you can run it at WSID and see what it's made of.

Your on!

Just an update I just pick this turb up for my car @ just under 2k http://www.pbase.com/toysrus/inbox

GREDDY T88 - 34D :D :D :D And at the moment i'm getting an LSD custom made for the gearbox which is going thru a rebuild and strengthing!

Anyone wanna place bets!!

[NXTIME]

Do you know how much oversize you need to go to bore out the 2L to get it o 2.4L? It can be done, but you would need to stroke it as well. Use the 4G64B crank and oversize the pistons by either 60 or 80 thou and you will have a 2.4L. The pistons will have to be custom made to allow for the 6mm difference in the deck height and/or shorter rods. Things quickly start to get difficult though. Just Use a 2.4L block from a Nimbus or 2.4L Magna to make things easier.

[NXTIME]

Oh, and that T88 34D with a 22cm rear housing won't boost on the 2L.


Well, maybe if you rev it to 8K with a shot of NOS :D

[toysrus]

I understand what your saying, the only thing people forget is that this 12valve engine has the 3rd valve electronically controlled, switched on/off at factory standard 2500rpm, but variable if you set-up your own switch, ie 8v to help low end torque & 3rd valve to help top-end power, that means better than an 8v but not as good as the 16v power wise,


and 2.4L is a basic mod, in theory, i.e nothing too technologicaly advanced about that ?

And true, but the VR4 drag car would've had unlimited funds compared to the 2L Sirius or Astron which is what cookiemonster was talking about.

I'll do my stuff on the SOHC and then come back with power/torque output.

Would it be better to get a 96+ Nimbus bottom end, ie more durable/newer or the late 91 2.4L Hyundai sonata engine and use the money difference to strengthen it ?

How much would you pay/should cost for a 96+ Nimbus bottom end ?

[pcuser51]

:D NEXTIME just my 2bobs worth the g-tec is accurate if you enter the correct car weight into it

[toysrus]

Why does the Sonata 2.4L MPI only have 78kw where as the Nimbus 2.4L MPI has 103kw ?? I think compression is almost identical, if not I think the Nimbus is actually lower

Aren't they exactly the same engine 4G64 ? apart from very minor differences.... 'cause 25kw is a MAJOR difference

Any ideas ?