Many shades of Red (now one shade of Green)
Re: Many shades of Red
Picking up from 2014!...
I put a new mechancial boost gauge in place of the electric one. I forgot what exactly I did but it looks like I took the mechancial one apart, used part of the electric one for the metal bracket, fitted it to some white plastic tube(?) and printed a new scale using a colour laser printer.
I put a new mechancial boost gauge in place of the electric one. I forgot what exactly I did but it looks like I took the mechancial one apart, used part of the electric one for the metal bracket, fitted it to some white plastic tube(?) and printed a new scale using a colour laser printer.
1986 UK 2 litre intercooled narrow body
Re: Many shades of Red
And doing the valve stem seals. Used rope to fill the cylinder up down the spark plug hole and turned the engine by hand to compress it to hold the valve up. I don't have a source of compressed air. It worked a treat.
1986 UK 2 litre intercooled narrow body
Re: Many shades of Red
Then we moved house, the Starion got parked up in a garage and left for 4 years while more important things happened 
After building a car port with good access around the car (UK single garages are barely big enough to put a classic mini in!) it was time to start work where I left it. And that was replacing the fuel pump with a Walbro, knowing full well what I was likely to find:
Yep, thats seems better days! I didn't get any photos of of the inside, but it was actually spotless. It was sent to be cleaned and pressure checked. The outside was then re-painted in Epoxy paint and all the hoses replaced with SAE J30 R9 pipe. The hard lines were replaced too with Cupronickel, like I had done with the brake lines. That was really hard work, doing it in one piece. I guess this is done before the rear subframe is mounted on the assembly line. Maybe I could have done braided line all the way, but its done now.
I then started to look at this horrible mess, which I had sort of tidied originaly replacing the fusbile links with Maxi fuses, but I wasn't happy.
And that led onto a massive journey of un-doing every part of the cars wiring loom from front to back and taking out the bits I didn't need and re-wrapping it all.
Yikes, that escalated quickly. I then proceded to remove the heat matrix and all that stuff behind the dash as I only want this car for summer months and weight saving seems to be a slipperly slope.
Next was to look back at all the MPI stuff I had collected previously and see how it works. Well, it didn't. The Evo 8 ECU that I really wanted to use, turned out to be a nightmare to operate in the year 2020. The tools to flash or modifiy it for speed density didn't want to work with Windows 7 or 10, the information on how to use it seemed to be lost in decades old forum posts and black Friday was round the corner, so I treated my self to a Haltech 550. And un-did all the hard work I had done a few years ago.
Mid way through the conversion. On the far right is the 10 Way Ebay special Relay box and fuse holder, which replaces all the old stuff. The old Map Sensor is replaced with a blanking plate.
After building a car port with good access around the car (UK single garages are barely big enough to put a classic mini in!) it was time to start work where I left it. And that was replacing the fuel pump with a Walbro, knowing full well what I was likely to find:
Yep, thats seems better days! I didn't get any photos of of the inside, but it was actually spotless. It was sent to be cleaned and pressure checked. The outside was then re-painted in Epoxy paint and all the hoses replaced with SAE J30 R9 pipe. The hard lines were replaced too with Cupronickel, like I had done with the brake lines. That was really hard work, doing it in one piece. I guess this is done before the rear subframe is mounted on the assembly line. Maybe I could have done braided line all the way, but its done now.
I then started to look at this horrible mess, which I had sort of tidied originaly replacing the fusbile links with Maxi fuses, but I wasn't happy.
And that led onto a massive journey of un-doing every part of the cars wiring loom from front to back and taking out the bits I didn't need and re-wrapping it all.
Yikes, that escalated quickly. I then proceded to remove the heat matrix and all that stuff behind the dash as I only want this car for summer months and weight saving seems to be a slipperly slope.
Next was to look back at all the MPI stuff I had collected previously and see how it works. Well, it didn't. The Evo 8 ECU that I really wanted to use, turned out to be a nightmare to operate in the year 2020. The tools to flash or modifiy it for speed density didn't want to work with Windows 7 or 10, the information on how to use it seemed to be lost in decades old forum posts and black Friday was round the corner, so I treated my self to a Haltech 550. And un-did all the hard work I had done a few years ago.
Mid way through the conversion. On the far right is the 10 Way Ebay special Relay box and fuse holder, which replaces all the old stuff. The old Map Sensor is replaced with a blanking plate.
1986 UK 2 litre intercooled narrow body
Re: Many shades of Red
Dyno day. The graph is without any fudge factors for drive line losses etc.
Went well in the sense nothing exploded but the graphs were not what I'd hoped for. Boost spiked with a MBC at 13psi then fell to 10psi. Guy mapping it reckoned something was choking it, perhaps T3 turbo, head flow or camshaft. I do think my camshaft timing is retarded too much (oops) but if anything that should have pushed up the torque for the top end.
Anyone had similar results?
Went well in the sense nothing exploded but the graphs were not what I'd hoped for. Boost spiked with a MBC at 13psi then fell to 10psi. Guy mapping it reckoned something was choking it, perhaps T3 turbo, head flow or camshaft. I do think my camshaft timing is retarded too much (oops) but if anything that should have pushed up the torque for the top end.
Anyone had similar results?
1986 UK 2 litre intercooled narrow body
Re: Many shades of Red
Good luck on your maiden voyage.
I did similar once upon a time but simply bolted to the flange and made a sort of C shape to cover the turbo. Wobbled a bit but didn't matter, it's just to keep the heat off the underside of bonnet
I did similar once upon a time but simply bolted to the flange and made a sort of C shape to cover the turbo. Wobbled a bit but didn't matter, it's just to keep the heat off the underside of bonnet
Re: Many shades of Red
The Turbo heat shield? That has been holding strong. I did sleeve my oil drain pipe in fire sleeve as I notice it gets hot under the turbo and manifold.
3 days before the Dyno my alternator packed up. No dash light, just no charge output. Managed to find one to be shipped over night but then it turned up with a different style connector.
Seems like there are two alternators at least, one with constant live and one with switched ignition. Anyway, had to do a quick re-wire but the connector I used on the rear of the alternator actually melted from the turbo heat. It's one of those White 2 pin Nylon looking thinks with one spade at 90 degrees to the other.
1986 UK 2 litre intercooled narrow body
Re: Many shades of Red
very cool build thread. Good job
mitsu SOHC turbo motors, power almost always seem to hit a wall
Suspects? :
Stock exhaust manifold poor design 2.0 & 2.6
turbine wheel
wastegate flow turbulence. A few say big difference from moded oe exh hsg: separate discarge tube/divorce plate
valvesprings, even the 2.6 popular 6610 'performance' units were found inadequate
Improperly ground aftermarket camshafts. Common in usa. One particlar car dyno'd ~100hp gain! (once Schnieder corrected)
stock pickup in the distributor
To name a few. These motors rip, once you get past the .hurdles'.
mitsu SOHC turbo motors, power almost always seem to hit a wall
Suspects? :
Stock exhaust manifold poor design 2.0 & 2.6
turbine wheel
wastegate flow turbulence. A few say big difference from moded oe exh hsg: separate discarge tube/divorce plate
valvesprings, even the 2.6 popular 6610 'performance' units were found inadequate
Improperly ground aftermarket camshafts. Common in usa. One particlar car dyno'd ~100hp gain! (once Schnieder corrected)
stock pickup in the distributor
To name a few. These motors rip, once you get past the .hurdles'.
Re: Many shades of Red
I'll continue posting, not sure how much traffic is here but its a useful diary so I know what I've done.
This shows some mods to the rear of the cluster.
On the left is a 3K3 pullup resistor from the Tacho signal to 12V IGN. This seems to be needed to get the J772T ignitor to drive the Tacho.
Left/Middle is a 200R resistor across the Alternator bulb - in case it blows. There is usually one on the relay tree thingy by the battery - but all that has been completely removed.
On the right is a series 47R + 10nF from the Reed switch on the speedo to GND. This should condition the signal better for the Haltech to recognise.
Also shows the hole I cut/mods to get the mechanical boost gauge through.
This shows some mods to the rear of the cluster.
On the left is a 3K3 pullup resistor from the Tacho signal to 12V IGN. This seems to be needed to get the J772T ignitor to drive the Tacho.
Left/Middle is a 200R resistor across the Alternator bulb - in case it blows. There is usually one on the relay tree thingy by the battery - but all that has been completely removed.
On the right is a series 47R + 10nF from the Reed switch on the speedo to GND. This should condition the signal better for the Haltech to recognise.
Also shows the hole I cut/mods to get the mechanical boost gauge through.
1986 UK 2 litre intercooled narrow body
Re: Many shades of Red
Next was an old problem with the power steering feeling crunchy and squeaking. Especially when cold.
I could see the PS belt "slapping" while runnign the engine and thought it may be a problem with the PS pump but ordered some new belts. The new belts were "toothed" which seemed odd but this is quite normal is seems. Turns out the old PS pump belt actually had a sort of flat spot/worn section in the V profile, can see in the photo the white cords showing. Guess previous owner had the belt loose and just left it, or revved past it and wore this strange section.
The noise was not familiar to me as the usual noise I assocate with a lose belt is a constant squel, but I guess the load of the alternator is constant on the engine, whereas the PS pump load varies as the demand is put in from the steering wheel.
I'm sure the steering box and pump need a rebuild- but thankfully not right now!
I could see the PS belt "slapping" while runnign the engine and thought it may be a problem with the PS pump but ordered some new belts. The new belts were "toothed" which seemed odd but this is quite normal is seems. Turns out the old PS pump belt actually had a sort of flat spot/worn section in the V profile, can see in the photo the white cords showing. Guess previous owner had the belt loose and just left it, or revved past it and wore this strange section.
The noise was not familiar to me as the usual noise I assocate with a lose belt is a constant squel, but I guess the load of the alternator is constant on the engine, whereas the PS pump load varies as the demand is put in from the steering wheel.
I'm sure the steering box and pump need a rebuild- but thankfully not right now!
1986 UK 2 litre intercooled narrow body
Re: Many shades of Red
Had a go at stopping the voltmeter in the dash from bouncing with the indicators, or when selecting reverse gear. The majority of voltage drop seems to be from fuse 13/14 from the fusebox under the steering wheel to the battery, via the ignition Switch. I hoped a diode and capacitor would fix it, on the rear of the voltmeter but the meter is a heated bimetallic type, so draws a huge amount, about 100mA.
While I had the dash out I fixed up a nice check engine light, which is controlled by the Haltech. Got a new steering wheel too!
Then plumbed in a 3 port solenoid. I've used one from a VW/Audi, seems to work well, just need to fine tune the boost map to keep the boost spike down.
Waiting for an exciting package from Australia!
While I had the dash out I fixed up a nice check engine light, which is controlled by the Haltech. Got a new steering wheel too!
Then plumbed in a 3 port solenoid. I've used one from a VW/Audi, seems to work well, just need to fine tune the boost map to keep the boost spike down.
Waiting for an exciting package from Australia!
1986 UK 2 litre intercooled narrow body
Re: Many shades of Red
RPW billet camshaft, 286 duration (Stage 3) and some valve springs. Went single valve springs, not intending to go beyond 6-6.5k so guessed this was probably best.
I often drive with the side lights on, for better visibility to other road users. Green car and green countryside. Found I would forget to turn the side lights off so fitted a lights on warning buzzer on a aluminium bracket on the rear of the instrument cluster. I used a generic 12v buzzer and extra diode. Wired it so the + was from the live to the dash illumination bulbs and the - to the Door Ajar light.
Started to remove the PS pump to replace the hoses as the low pressure lines were weeping. The high pressure line is showing cracks in the rubber so that was chopped up and a new line fitted by a hydraulic hose place, while you wait service. Given the area a ruddy good clean with years of accumulated dirt and oil.
The water return from the turbo needs replacing too and I think that is every rubber hoses replaced
While I was there it came apparent my exhaust manifold is not standard. I always thought it was just stock manifold with a T3 flange welded in place, but not as it seems! Which is great, apart from a crack in the 3rd runner
That's a job for next year along with a GTX2860, need to keep focussed.
Spotted this on a clip from MCM a while back
I often drive with the side lights on, for better visibility to other road users. Green car and green countryside. Found I would forget to turn the side lights off so fitted a lights on warning buzzer on a aluminium bracket on the rear of the instrument cluster. I used a generic 12v buzzer and extra diode. Wired it so the + was from the live to the dash illumination bulbs and the - to the Door Ajar light.
Started to remove the PS pump to replace the hoses as the low pressure lines were weeping. The high pressure line is showing cracks in the rubber so that was chopped up and a new line fitted by a hydraulic hose place, while you wait service. Given the area a ruddy good clean with years of accumulated dirt and oil.
The water return from the turbo needs replacing too and I think that is every rubber hoses replaced
While I was there it came apparent my exhaust manifold is not standard. I always thought it was just stock manifold with a T3 flange welded in place, but not as it seems! Which is great, apart from a crack in the 3rd runner
That's a job for next year along with a GTX2860, need to keep focussed. Spotted this on a clip from MCM a while back
1986 UK 2 litre intercooled narrow body
Re: Many shades of Red
After a little break I got on with installing the camshaft. I checked the new valve springs to see if they were stiffer (only a bit?) than the original. Very unscientific using a spanner as a "see saw"!
Next I checked the TDC mark on the crank pulley by moving the crank back and forward, with a threaded rod in spark plug hole #1 acting as a lever on the piston and a dial gauge. A bit of a lash up but it worked and I took the middle mark. Turns out the stock pulley mark is within 1 degree - or as accurate as I could measure!
I was a little gutted purchasing a RPW camshaft doesn't come with an timing card so found a website where you input your details and it creates one for you. Printed it out, stuck it on some card then used so neo magnets to hold it on the pulley. Bit of bent wire for the marker.
I installed the camshaft with assembly grease and got on with timing the camshaft pulley, with a dial gauge on the top of the rockers. I checked both the exhaust and inlet. It's amazing how sensitive it is to any movement on the pulley and my dial gauge was a little bit tricky to use as the arm wasn't that long and the only thing I got the magnet to grab onto was the un-even exahsut manifold. I got there in the end. Painted the rocker cover for bonus +5hp
Next I checked the TDC mark on the crank pulley by moving the crank back and forward, with a threaded rod in spark plug hole #1 acting as a lever on the piston and a dial gauge. A bit of a lash up but it worked and I took the middle mark. Turns out the stock pulley mark is within 1 degree - or as accurate as I could measure!
I was a little gutted purchasing a RPW camshaft doesn't come with an timing card so found a website where you input your details and it creates one for you. Printed it out, stuck it on some card then used so neo magnets to hold it on the pulley. Bit of bent wire for the marker.
I installed the camshaft with assembly grease and got on with timing the camshaft pulley, with a dial gauge on the top of the rockers. I checked both the exhaust and inlet. It's amazing how sensitive it is to any movement on the pulley and my dial gauge was a little bit tricky to use as the arm wasn't that long and the only thing I got the magnet to grab onto was the un-even exahsut manifold. I got there in the end. Painted the rocker cover for bonus +5hp
1986 UK 2 litre intercooled narrow body
Re: Many shades of Red
I was a little dissapointed with the dyno run last summer, but then what was I expecting? Running a stock amount of boost pressure, even on MPI with a larger turbo is probably only going to make similar power to stock. Although, it did feel like it was dropping off the power a bit early in the rev range. So I realise now, when paying throught the roof for dyno time you need to be certain all the components are doing their best to prevent wasting time and guess work....and I couldn't be sure of that. So I am going through each part before returning for more dyno runs.
The camshaft is hopefully sorted and timed to the timing from RPW. I can make minor adjustments either way for the camhaft timing (and obviously adjust the ignition timing offset from the optical dizzy). I'll be running that in soon for 30 minutes at 3000rpm.
The throttle body, being from a 1.8 FTO was a little on the small size at 50mm. It might be OK, but I can't be sure. Trying to find one now with the throttle cable on the left side is near impossible. I think the GTO ran one, of a larger size but GTO second hand parts are now silly prices. Gone are the days of gettign them for next to free from scrap yards. I've ended up with a 70mm billet one from China, which has the ability to run an idle valve on the bottom. This is too big, I wanted about 60-63mm but I'll see how it goes. At least I don't need to worry about any restriction heres!
I've got a block of 12mm alluminium to adapt a Kia/Hyundai 3 wire Idle motor to the base of the throttle body. The Mitsubishi idle motors seem to be 6 wire stepper motor things that are not supported by the Haltech Elite 550. I had to get rid of the wall in the base of the throttle body to let the air flow into the chamber next to it. The screw is an air bypass screw for manual adjustment too. It seems well made although I did go round putting threadlock on all the screws, especially the butterfly plate screws!
The camshaft is hopefully sorted and timed to the timing from RPW. I can make minor adjustments either way for the camhaft timing (and obviously adjust the ignition timing offset from the optical dizzy). I'll be running that in soon for 30 minutes at 3000rpm.
The throttle body, being from a 1.8 FTO was a little on the small size at 50mm. It might be OK, but I can't be sure. Trying to find one now with the throttle cable on the left side is near impossible. I think the GTO ran one, of a larger size but GTO second hand parts are now silly prices. Gone are the days of gettign them for next to free from scrap yards. I've ended up with a 70mm billet one from China, which has the ability to run an idle valve on the bottom. This is too big, I wanted about 60-63mm but I'll see how it goes. At least I don't need to worry about any restriction heres!
I've got a block of 12mm alluminium to adapt a Kia/Hyundai 3 wire Idle motor to the base of the throttle body. The Mitsubishi idle motors seem to be 6 wire stepper motor things that are not supported by the Haltech Elite 550. I had to get rid of the wall in the base of the throttle body to let the air flow into the chamber next to it. The screw is an air bypass screw for manual adjustment too. It seems well made although I did go round putting threadlock on all the screws, especially the butterfly plate screws!
1986 UK 2 litre intercooled narrow body
Re: Many shades of Red
While looking at the throttle body and general breathability of the engine, my eyes turned to the stock intercoooler. The pipes are 45mm which I think are only good for about 200hp. I also found the boost control a little spikey and tailing off with increasing RPM, which I am putting down to pressure drop on the intercooler. So I am waiting for this to turn up in the post:
I spent ages looking at the options and what space I had with the oil lines and power steering lines in the way. Looked at twin pass, backward / reverse fitting. All different sizes. I decided on one with about double the area (that is the height x depth) to improve the flow. This is 450mm x 300mm x 90mm core so pretty deep but I think there is plenty of space. It may require the support for the oil cooler/bonnet latch modified in some way.
I'm looking at running 57mm or 60mm pipework to/from turbo and throttle body, so I'll need to start all over again with that
Based on some brief research of air speeds in the pipework that should be good for even a 2.4 stroker running 1.5 bar.
I spent ages looking at the options and what space I had with the oil lines and power steering lines in the way. Looked at twin pass, backward / reverse fitting. All different sizes. I decided on one with about double the area (that is the height x depth) to improve the flow. This is 450mm x 300mm x 90mm core so pretty deep but I think there is plenty of space. It may require the support for the oil cooler/bonnet latch modified in some way.
I'm looking at running 57mm or 60mm pipework to/from turbo and throttle body, so I'll need to start all over again with that
Based on some brief research of air speeds in the pipework that should be good for even a 2.4 stroker running 1.5 bar.
1986 UK 2 litre intercooled narrow body
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