QLD legal question

[WidebodyWoody]

Went through an amber light today, changed to red while I was still moving through intersection. $300 fine. Should I fight it? Road was damp, so I can argue that it wasn't long enough for me to stop safely. They were adimate I went through it when it was red, which is bullshit though. It was amber. Thoughts?

[starionc]

I had this happen to me in my truck, only it was a camera that went off as the 8 rear tyres went across the line and triggered the camera! Tried to fight it, but had the option of pay the fine or go to court! Going to court means at least 1 day of the truck off the road at around $800 plus court cost and still pay the fine..............................................

My argument was that the front of the truck crossed the line as it turned amber, If I tried to stop. I would of blocked the hole intersection. They told me that was what I should of done???????????

The camera was never checked. I might of got away with it in court, but didn't wish to blow a days turnover from the truck!!!

I'm guessing you got pulled over by the cops? Ask them to show you on the camera they all have on the dash now, see what it shows, I bet they dont have the footage!!!!!

As much as it sucks, It's not worth the grief really IMO.

[FST4RD]

Write in, there's no harm in trying!
If you were in your Starion say something like "The roads were damp and I was driving my old car from the 80's. As stopping distances were longer due to the road being damp I made the conscience decision to carry on rather then try and pull up and risk losing control of my old car. The cop that pulled me over was at a distance/across the road/opposite me so did not realise this. I have had a clean record blah blah blah please please please" :D

[WidebodyWoody]

I was in my Corolla, FWD. So can't use the old car excuse. The cop was adjacent to me, so their camera wouldn't have got diddly recoreded on it. They would have seen me go through amber, looked up, oh its red now, he ran a red light. The law states that if you are in the middle of an intersection, even if the light turns red, you are permitted to continue to clear the intersection. This isn't exactly that though, but I was in the middle of the intersection when the light turned red so I should be allowed to continue to finish the turn.

[OLD FART]

Woody you should write to the Superintendant of traffic as it's worth try
However the rule is you must stop if possible when the light turns yellow/amber as it is the start of the red NOT an extension of the green BUT most drivers ??? seem to think that it is ok to keep going as long as the front wheels enter the intersection before the red lights up.

[WidebodyWoody]

Yes I do understand the law rad. I can argue that with the wet conditions it made lenthens the safe stopping distance. But other than that, I don't know if I would win the arguement based solely on that though...

[thrash]

did you admit to the police that you went through the red light?

If you didn't, and you're absolutely certain you went through the amber, then argue it to the death.

It's not up to you to prove that you're innocent, it's actually up to them to prove that you are guilty, so all you technically need to state in court is that there is no evidence to prove you are guilty. If the police prosecutor comes up with evidence, such as camera footage from the police car, then you will be convicted. If not, then you've won.

If, however, you've admitted anything, then that is enough evidence to convict you.

[ProZac]

Yeah, but going through the court process is likely to cost more than the ticket... I'd just take the lump and move on, life is too short, you have to pick your battles, insert generic relevant cliché.

[thrash]

That's the exact thinking that allows the authorities to get away with bullying us - make it too expensive to argue, and less people will.

On the note of expenses, I don't know if QLD is the same, but in NSW, if you are innocent, you don't pay the court costs. You only pay the fine AND the court costs AND some extra crap if the judge decides so, if you are convicted.

So.. if you represent yourself (not usually wise, unless you're a cold calculating bastard LOL ), there are no costs if you win.

[NXTIME]

In reality, a policeman's word is always taken above a regular citizen, unless there is clear evidence showing otherwise.

Having said that, I think your best bet would be to write a letter pleading your case and see if it gets you anywhere. If not, then just cop it on the cin and move on as it isn't worth the headache.

[GormzZ]

Yeah a mate got done on the spot for the simple thing of going through a orange light.. he said not enough distance to stop.. but the cop seen his driving history and made out he was lying.. i was in the backseat and there was no way he was stopping in time unless screeching the brakes etc.

also im currently going through a court issue at the moment.. regarding not displaying p plates. got witness's saying i left the premises with them on and they flew off *stupid magnetic p plates*.. So as even the cop said at my last appearence.. that my driving history was good and really it's a 50/50 each way.. so fingers crossed i don't lose any points or get a decent fine! Also note i've gone onto my opens within the court waiting time.. so from what i've been told its doubtful to backtrack points lost etc.

Next and hopefully final appearance in court is in a month or so.. which will be like 8 months after i got the infringement! Takes a long time.. honestly if it doesn't effect you losing your licence.. then might be better to pay it.. But if your case is good and you have sufficient evidence and the DOT dont.. then you can easily win. But as i've been told.. regardless of the issue always take it to court because you will never know.. you might always come out on top.

[TOMSUN]

Going to need to find some legal facts / definitions about red lights for your state.

eg. I heard somewhere that in NSW they allow 0.4 of a second on a red for you to be clear of the intersection? But again that's a rumor. Find it the guideline or ruling written down somewhere if you choose to fight it.

Last time I had to go to court for a traffic offence it took 14 months from writting the initial letter to final ruling. A pain the ass, but glad I did it.

[ProZac]

0.4 of a second? How the hell are they going to prove that, either way?

[NXTIME]

It is a discretionary fine. IMHO, if you were to go to court, I would argue that the best person to judge whether or not your car was in a position to come to a stop safely at the moment you saw the orange light would be the driver of the car, as opposed to a person in another car. Coupled with the fact that the road was wet, etc this would be my argument.

I would also argue that you did not accelerate but continued through the amber lights and was looking at the road in the direction of your turn.

Were there two police officers? How did they judge that you went through a red light? Were they both looking at the lights at the time? Did the police car also go through the lights (as they were next to you) or did they stop and then chase you?

it will al come down to how you present you case. ie if you make it obvious that you had no other safe option but to continue through the lights. Again, this is a discretionary fine, and I would use the wording of the law/road rules to plead your case. For eg, if the law states "a driver must attempt to stop when a green light turns amber, if it is safe to do so", I would argue that in your opinion, as the driver of the vehicle at the time, you judged that it was not safe to attempt to stop due to the wet road conditions and the proximity of your vehicle to the intersection. And further, that you were in a better position that the police officer to make that judgement.

[panda]

This topic can be debated forever, but when the law is interpreted by a Police Officer, then you rarely win. I had a similar experience where I entered an intersection towing a loaded car trailer, & the red light camera shot a photo of the car trailer. Again, as you know, the stopping distance of a loaded car trailer is greater than a vehicle on its own, but when I questioned the fine, I was simply told to pay up, as fighting the case would cost 10 times more & have only a 10% chance of winning. Unfortunately in these days of "revenue raising", we don't stand a chance.