ECU (Expensive) VS FCD (Cheap) for Boost.

Bruzman · Post by **Bruzman** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:26 pm

Objective:
I am going to be increasing my Boost from stock factory (Was told it's around 7 PSI, but my factory gauge reads about 0.7-0.8 Bar) to around 12-14 PSI.
My issue is that if you boost it to around or over 12 psi on a Factory ECU (Japanese Starion), a safe-guard detects this and cut's the fuel to the motor. This is designed to stop broken waste-gates from damaging the turbo or engine.

So, I either need a aftermarket ECU or a Fuel Cut Defender (FCD) to Successfully Boost.

ECU:
From the Start of my project, I wanted to do everything myself to learn as much as humanly possible. So, Mega-squirt's self assemble and self programable ECU's seemed like the best option for me. I'd get it tuned by a professional, then do my own tunes and compare them. You can Save tunes and switch between them.
http://www.megasquirt.info/
The Stock ECU inside the Starion's are from the 70's and remap around 64 times a second. Most new and high performance ECU's remap around 1,000 - 2,000 times a second.

Main issue is that Most ECU's cost easily +$700. I don't have that money right now, and I don't have the time to do all the re-wiring.

FCD (Fuel Cut Defender):
After reading an Article on Austarion about a "FCD" from Jay-Car that you solder on. I seen this as a Cheap effective way to stop the Fuel Cut Safety-Guard ($25-30 after postal).
Article: http://forums.austarion.com/viewtopic.p ... hlight=fcd
Devise from Jay-Car: http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.as ... TID=965#11

Problem being, I have been told that the Factory ECU is too shit for this modification and that it will make my Air/fuel ratio to run very lean and cause damage to my Old Engine. Even at 12-14 PSI
Keep in mind I have 2 factory ECU's, so that if one FCD Mod fails, I can still use my other one.

Questions:
1. I noticed afew big names asking questions on the Article (including, enthuzed and dirtygalant). Anyone seen the FCD working safely in person? or have any information about it?
2. Any Pro's or Con's I have missed from the FCD?
3. Anyone know a good aftermarket ECU thats easy to wire up and extremely cheap or second-hand?

Unrelated to problem:
I will be buying this for raising the boost. I got a tip that Turbotech make extremely good Manual Boost Controllers:
Boost Controller;
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/V2-Turbotech ... 336747a9bc
And these 2 support items:
Boost Gauge (not great, but cool Digital Display);
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-52mm-Blue- ... 1e6c7bc25e
Turbo Timer (Getting sick of waiting a minute or too);
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TURBO-TIMER- ... 4aaf0a3572

Mick · Post by **Mick** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:38 pm

dont try this at home.......... or anywhere.
any raise in boost without tuning will result in a lean condition, thats why the boost cut exists.
save your pennies, get a decent brand of aftermarket and enjoy.

Bruzman · Post by **Bruzman** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:33 pm

Mick wrote:dont try this at home.......... or anywhere.
any raise in boost without tuning will result in a lean condition, thats why the boost cut exists.
save your pennies, get a decent brand of aftermarket and enjoy.

I know your right............. But I am alittle stubbon and really want to increase, if not to 14psi, then many only alittle bit..

Plus, if I could afford an aftermarket ECU, I would not even consider something so extreme! I know it's risky :P

No way in hell I can afford afew grand to get the ECU, then wiring and tuning :x
The ECU+Wiring+Tuning would cost me more than what the car is worth......

1. Can anything be done to change the air/fuel ratio on the ECU?

2. What is a "possible" safe PSI before it could be running lean?

ProZac · Post by **ProZac** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:17 pm

Ive seen 14psi smash ring lands on a stock non-intercooled motor. Wouldn't reccommend it.

Bruzman · Post by **Bruzman** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:37 pm

ProZac wrote:Ive seen 14psi smash ring lands on a stock non-intercooled motor. Wouldn't reccommend it.

Thats some very good information! So 14psi non-cooled isn't safe.

Well, this brings up afew more questions!

1. What is the stock boost on a 1983 JA Starion in PSI? (Mine doesnt have a boost controller, but reads around 0.7 of a Bar)

2. If the stock boost is 7 PSI, do you believe that it wouldn't be too risky raising to 10-11 PSI?

3. What ECU do you guys run and/or recommend?

NOTE: I originally wrote "1.2 bar" instead of "0.7-0.8 bar" on my first post about what my factory gauge reads. I updated the post.

bridgey · Post by **bridgey** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:47 pm

mine runs 12 pound factory

thrash · Post by **thrash** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:08 pm

my old car used to run on 13-14psi, no intercooler. standard car, no problems

give it a try. if at first you don't blow it up, try try again :beer

Bruzman · Post by **Bruzman** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:22 pm

bridgey wrote:mine runs 12 pound factory

12 pounds per square inch = 0.827370875 bar.... I gathered from the gauge it was around 0.7-0.8 lol.. tho, I was told by a guy whose owned several Starion's that it is 7psi from factory..

I will get a boost gauge that reads PSI so I can know for sure.. I need to know where i am at, before I can go anywhere :P

thrash wrote:my old car used to run on 13-14psi, no intercooler. standard car, no problems

give it a try. if at first you don't blow it up, try try again :beer

I have another 4G63 block, and I have another ECU... might as well give it a go lol

Anyone else have any information? :)

GormzZ · Post by **GormzZ** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:23 pm

yeah i always thought 14psi was the cut of point for staying on the safe side? I'm equipping mine with a decent intake and front mount to make sure my air is cold.. and less chance of blowing up. I've been looking into the megasquirt a fair bit actually.. if you want maps and everything go onto www.starquestclub.com, then you can find alot of info on megasquirts.. and regarding tuning.. its just a matter of if you get a decent base map etc.. and find a good tuner later down the track when you get some more coin is what i thought.. otherwise if your really keen on perfecting the megasquirt you will need pre made maps from the starquestclub forum and just ask questions there etc.

sucka · Post by **sucka** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:29 pm

Bruzman wrote:
1. Can anything be done to change the air/fuel ratio on the ECU?

2. What is a "possible" safe PSI before it could be running lean?

1. An aftermarket adjustable fuel pressure regulator would be a primitive way of doing it

2. Seems to depend on who you ask. My 2c is anything below the boost cut is safe as long as detonation is under control.

Bruzman · Post by **Bruzman** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:42 pm

GormzZ wrote:yeah i always thought 14psi was the cut of point for staying on the safe side? I'm equipping mine with a decent intake and front mount to make sure my air is cold.. and less chance of blowing up. I've been looking into the megasquirt a fair bit actually.. if you want maps and everything go onto www.starquestclub.com, then you can find alot of info on megasquirts.. and regarding tuning.. its just a matter of if you get a decent base map etc.. and find a good tuner later down the track when you get some more coin is what i thought.. otherwise if your really keen on perfecting the megasquirt you will need pre made maps from the starquestclub forum and just ask questions there etc.

Perfect!! Great information!
Is it possible to get cheap/second hand mega-squirt kits?
Once I write this, I am gonna do a ebay search :D

sucka wrote: 1. An aftermarket adjustable fuel pressure regulator would be a primitive way of doing it

2. Seems to depend on who you ask. My 2c is anything below the boost cut is safe as long as detonation is under control.

What about the injectors? will they squirt more fuel if you increase the pressure from the fuel? will that put more fuel in the engine?
I ask because I just assumed that a fuel pressure regulator just stopped fuel surges.. please let me know how it can increase the richness of my mix :)

---------------------------------------------------------------------
On another note, I was google searching for how much extra HP/KW different cars got from afew PSI increase AND I found this:
http://www.turboclub.com/turbotech/turbomod3.htm
First paragraphs down it read:
"I have found that from my own experience that my Mitsubishi STARION has had no mechanical problems that I can relate to being caused by extracting more horsepower. "

ProZac · Post by **ProZac** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:46 pm

I'd say if you fit a decent exhaust system, you'll see a little extra boost anyhows.

Surely there must be something wrong for a non intercooled model to be running 14psi with no modifications? Mine only runs 7-8psi, which is what it came out with from the factory. This is with the factory (quite restrictive) exhaust system fitted, including the factory cat.

GormzZ · Post by **GormzZ** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:48 pm

yeah it sure is mate. there is three versions as far as i know.. v1, v2 and v3 aka the smaller megasquirt but is a tiny bit slower from memory.

go on trademe.co.nz, found a decent megasquirt on there for under 700 bucks.. now thats reasonably cheap considering its already setup for the 4g63 suited to starions and should be a direct wire up. but you will have to look more into that. As stated to get cheap megasquirt stuff go on that starquestclub forum and ask to buy one etc.. no doubt someone will have one for sale. In my opinion, the main reason i would want to go to it is basically to run my new mpi setup. Otherwise on the stock setup i would just put a front mount on, up boost via a boost controller or boost tee to 12 - 14psi..when i want to have some fun and 7psi daily.

What are your real intentions for all of this, just to squeeze out a bit more power of the stock setup hey?

Bruzman · Post by **Bruzman** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:59 pm

ProZac wrote:I'd say if you fit a decent exhaust system, you'll see a little extra boost anyhows.

Surely there must be something wrong for a non intercooled model to be running 14psi with no modifications? Mine only runs 7-8psi, which is what it came out with from the factory. This is with the factory (quite restrictive) exhaust system fitted, including the factory cat.

I currently have the stock exhaust system on, BUT this weekend, I am putting on a 3 inch turbo back exhaust with a big hi-flow cat off a GMC truck!

The current factory Boost gauge must be out. I have had issue with it before (reading -0.1 to -0.2 bar at idle).
Tho, the old head had a blown whole when I purchased it. I replaced the head but maybe the strange increase in boost is why :?
But, I have checked the turbo and there is nothing wrong with the vacuum line between the turbo and waste-gate. completely factory.

GormzZ wrote:yeah it sure is mate. there is three versions as far as i know.. v1, v2 and v3 aka the smaller megasquirt but is a tiny bit slower from memory.

go on trademe.co.nz, found a decent megasquirt on there for under 700 bucks.. now thats reasonably cheap considering its already setup for the 4g63 suited to starions and should be a direct wire up. but you will have to look more into that. As stated to get cheap megasquirt stuff go on that starquestclub forum and ask to buy one etc.. no doubt someone will have one for sale. In my opinion, the main reason i would want to go to it is basically to run my new mpi setup. Otherwise on the stock setup i would just put a front mount on, up boost via a boost controller or boost tee to 12 - 14psi..when i want to have some fun and 7psi daily.

What are your real intentions for all of this, just to squeeze out a bit more power of the stock setup hey?

Project/learning car.. Possible daily once happy with it.

as for the Mega-squirt, I know where to start my search when I get the cash for it :D Thank you so much

Edit/Update/Insert: On a factory engine, what possible power increase might someone expect from raising the boost from 7 to 12 psi?

GormzZ · Post by **GormzZ** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:08 pm

oh cool. :). Hope all goes good for ya man.. just see how she runs here and there on 14psi and do a check over her often to ensure no signs of leaks etc.. if all is well then that bad boy should get flogged! lol jokes. xD

ECU (Expensive) VS FCD (Cheap) for Boost.

ECU (Expensive) VS FCD (Cheap) for Boost.

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