Running really rich

dirtygalant · Post by **dirtygalant** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:05 pm

Hey guys, just got my engine started but it's running really really rich and is spewing out black smoke.

The setup is Starion block, DASH head + inlet manifold, but running the original JA Type A injection unit on the DASH inlet manifold. Only changes I could see were different temperature sensors (which I have unplugged at the moment) and slight mis-match of mating surfaces between the DASH inlet manifold and original Type A injection unit which a makeshift gasket fixed. When I took the injection unit off to change the gasket I noticed a pool of fuel inside the inlet manifold. I also don't have the map sensor plugged in as there is no port on the DASH inlet manifold for it to connect to, so I will make up a tee off the brake booster vac line.

Any ideas what could be causing this? This ignition timing is perhaps a little off and it runs a bit rough (presumably because of running really rich).

JA83 · Post by **JA83** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:22 pm

its to do with no map sensor and coolant temp sensors. coolant temp sensors are one of the main input to a ecu for mixture control when hot/cold, so if map. connect them and see how you go mate :beer

spinners · Post by **spinners** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:24 pm

dirtygalant wrote:Hey guys, just got my engine started but it's running really really rich and is spewing out black smoke.

The setup is Starion block, DASH head + inlet manifold, but running the original JA Type A injection unit on the DASH inlet manifold. Only changes I could see were different temperature sensors (which I have unplugged at the moment) and slight mis-match of mating surfaces between the DASH inlet manifold and original Type A injection unit which a makeshift gasket fixed. When I took the injection unit off to change the gasket I noticed a pool of fuel inside the inlet manifold. I also don't have the map sensor plugged in as there is no port on the DASH inlet manifold for it to connect to, so I will make up a tee off the brake booster vac line.

Any ideas what could be causing this? This ignition timing is perhaps a little off and it runs a bit rough (presumably because of running really rich).

Welcome to world of DASH motors,I havnt had any experience with the type A eci on a dash motor,

you would want the coolant temp sensor hooked up(mine use to run real rich with this unplugged)

pool of fuel would indicate leaky injectors or ecu not getting the right reading from the sensors thus dumping heaps of fuel(map sensor)

Is there no spare factory nipple at the back of the manifold(pointing at the strut tower?

It seems that dash motors always have problems with rich running,no matter if its OE eci or type 1 or 2 eci.
I have just got mine running with the LINK ecu and its shitloads better now,doesnt run rich(especially at idle)and revs smooth up to 7000rpm redline
Sorry I cant be of more help

dirtygalant · Post by **dirtygalant** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:37 pm

Hey thanks guys I'll get the map sensor and coolant temp sensors hooked up tomorrow, I knew the coolant temp sensor may have had something to do with it but not necessarily the map sensor as I've had it unplugged in the past trying to diagnose another issue and it made no change to how the car was running at idle. In fact on my other coupe the vac line to the map sensor was leaking a huge amount and seemed to run no different once the vac line was replaced.

Yep there's a spare vac port running off the bottom of the manifold pointing to the strut tower but it's only 3mm or so thick/thin while the port on the old manifold would have been 5-6mm easy.

Anyway I'll get onto it tomorrow, I still need to re-route the upper radiator hose to the back of the head. The DASH inlet manifold appears to have two two-pin temp sensors running on the bottom of the thermo housing while it has another single pin sensor at the top of the thermo housing, I gather the one on top is for the gauge temp sensor and one or both of the other two-pin ones are for the ECU, though the original type A injection ECU would only use one of them, perhaps I will swap over the sensors from the original 8V manifold so eliminate other issues.

dirtygalant · Post by **dirtygalant** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:38 pm

also I'm pretty keen to run a multipoint manifold and switch to an aftermarket ECU soon.

spinners · Post by **spinners** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:51 pm

Cool,Mine use to have 2x 2 pin sensors but no 1 pin plug one tho,-! (with the oval bit to the ecu and the other one was water temp gauge,

I just rotated the top thermostat housing 180'and made a stainless pipe with a 45' bend into straight pipe that fits nicely between the mani and strut tower,and found a rubber hose at super cheap to suit radiator to pipe,looks good.

running a After/Market ecu best thing to do to get the DASH motor running mint,making a multipoint manifold is the most time consuming part I suppose.

Mine still is the original eci but with 2x 1200cc injectors and no afm
I saw you were keen on my DASH wiring loom I had on TM,but Lunacy bought it :?

dirtygalant · Post by **dirtygalant** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:17 pm

yeah I was real keen, I guess I was just being too cheap and was hoping to get them for a little less, but Bryce has a friend in the US who was after the stuff so he grabbed it for him.

dirtygalant · Post by **dirtygalant** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:39 am

just a thought - do the standard same size injectors from a Type A oval port injection system fit into the DASH injection system in place of the staggered sized injectors?

leoca · Post by **leoca** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:30 pm

dirtygalant wrote:Hey guys, just got my engine started but it's running really really rich and is spewing out black smoke.

The setup is Starion block, DASH head + inlet manifold, but running the original JA Type A injection unit on the DASH inlet manifold. Only changes I could see were different temperature sensors (which I have unplugged at the moment) and slight mis-match of mating surfaces between the DASH inlet manifold and original Type A injection unit which a makeshift gasket fixed. When I took the injection unit off to change the gasket I noticed a pool of fuel inside the inlet manifold. I also don't have the map sensor plugged in as there is no port on the DASH inlet manifold for it to connect to, so I will make up a tee off the brake booster vac line.

Any ideas what could be causing this? This ignition timing is perhaps a little off and it runs a bit rough (presumably because of running really rich).

I had this exact problem with my JB when i replaced the inlet manifold.
you have the pipes on the anti pollution system components going to the wrong places.
...get a photo and hook them up right .

try this for a start...note position of all the little rubber pipes

[img][img]http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/8702/img3186e.jpg[/img]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

dirtygalant · Post by **dirtygalant** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:04 am

all those pipes are long gone, plus you have pictured the Type B injection system which is both different to my early pre-Type A round port injection and the DASH injection unit. I have blocked off the vacuum ports which are no longer required - I did this when it was running on the original non-DASH head and manifold and the car ran fine, but not with the DASH head and manifold.

spinners · Post by **spinners** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:01 pm

dirtygalant wrote:just a thought - do the standard same size injectors from a Type A oval port injection system fit into the DASH injection system in place of the staggered sized injectors?

Hey,No they are totally different,The early type A injectors were a top feed sort of setup with a little mesh screen on top of the injector,fuel was feed into a flat bowl looking thing(under the eci cover)

The DASH injectors are a side feed sort of setup,where the injector,with a mesh screen around the whole injector(The top Halve of the injector is submerged in fuel)is feed 360' around it.

Ill take some pics later tonight.

The DASH ECI setup is the best of the TBI(still shit but better than the old setups)

I dont know what Mitsubishi were thinking when they designed TBI :x

FST4RD · Post by **FST4RD** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:07 pm

I know with my DASH motor it always ran rich before and after the rebuild, no matter what I did it always blew a little black, not at idle though.

dirtygalant · Post by **dirtygalant** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:51 pm

Ok I might just put the DASH injection system back on and run an aftermarket computer for the meantime, or somehow make up an engine wiring loom from scratch.

dirtygalant · Post by **dirtygalant** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:43 pm

God I feel like a dunce! I had forgotten to connect up the AFM, so that combined with no MAP sensor signal and I assume no coolant temp signal made the ECU dump in heaps of fuel. I have yet to sort out the cooling system plumbing but so far with running it in short bursts up to 20-30 seconds it appears to be running well - sometimes puffs out a bit of blue smoke but I would say that's the rings bedding in etc.

enthuzed · Post by **enthuzed** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:56 pm

dirtygalant wrote:God I feel like a dunce! I had forgotten to connect up the AFM, so that combined with no MAP sensor signal and I assume no coolant temp signal made the ECU dump in heaps of fuel. I have yet to sort out the cooling system plumbing but so far with running it in short bursts up to 20-30 seconds it appears to be running well - sometimes puffs out a bit of blue smoke but I would say that's the rings bedding in etc.

Ah DG, we all have those moments!
I'd be concerned about blue smoke in such a short time running though...

Austarion

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