more evo head questions!

[stariontron]

ok guys i'm stoked at the response from my last few questions, sounds like there's some pretty knowledgeable folk hanging around. anyway, onto round two

here's what i've acquired so far:

evo 2 head,
evo 3 RS cams
evo 4 ECU and loom
evo 1 pistons, rings and rods
my starion bottom end

stop me if i'm wrong, but i'm hoping that I can bolt the evo rods and pistons to my starion crank (assuming its a longnose), and run the evo 2 head.

1.will the rods fit?
2.will my compression ratio be fine?

I'm still looking for an inlet manifold. evo 1-3 ones are relatively rare but theres a HEAP of evo 4+ and non turbo galant manifold of all years going for next to nothing.

3.can I use an evo 4+ manifold on a 2 head?
4.can I use an N/A manifold on an evo 2 head?

finally, assuming that I can use the starion crank and flywheel..

5. will a clutch designed for an evo or vr4 fit a starion flywheel?

all done. 5 questions that I would love to hear the answer to, and might even help out some other people. I'd just like to add again that evo parts are CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP and anyone thinking about doing a TC conversion should start stocking up now!

[WidebodyWoody]

1. Yes
2. No idea but Dave might know
3. Yes but you have to do a bit of grinding to the manifold pattern to make it fit. But its less work then redirecting a evo1->3 manifold I believe.
4. Yes. But you have to redirect the Throttle Body.
5. I don't believe so.

[Lunacy]

ok guys i'm stoked at the response from my last few questions, sounds like there's some pretty knowledgeable folk hanging around. anyway, onto round two

here's what i've acquired so far:

evo 2 head,
evo 3 RS cams
evo 4 ECU and loom
evo 1 pistons, rings and rods
my starion bottom end

stop me if i'm wrong, but i'm hoping that I can bolt the evo rods and pistons to my starion crank (assuming its a longnose), and run the evo 2 head.

1.will the rods fit? Nope i am pretty sure they dont. Difference in width of the bearings if i remember correctly. Either way the evo rods are the biggest known weak spot of the evo engines, they are thinner than vr4 and starion ones. If you want to use the evo pistons, you could use starion or vr4 rods and get the pin ends resized to 22mm (evo gudgeon pin size) Ive got a spare set of starion rods you can have for a box of heineken if you need them.

2.will my compression ratio be fine?
Yes evo and vr CRs are both around 8.3 to 9:1 so evo pistons should be fine. You can get a brand new set of cast NPR pistons from the USA that will fit starion or vr4 rods (21mm pin) for around $100USD which is a small outlay for an engine build really, rather than relying on 2nd hand pistons

I'm still looking for an inlet manifold. evo 1-3 ones are relatively rare but theres a HEAP of evo 4+ and non turbo galant manifold of all years going for next to nothing.

3.can I use an evo 4+ manifold on a 2 head?
Theres been alot of evo 1-3 manifolds on trademe lately for under $100 each, evo 4 onwards ones will take alot more modding as the mounting flange is different. Evo1-3 ones just need the TB moving to the other end which is pretty easy and cheap

4.can I use an N/A manifold on an evo 2 head?
Nope evo heads are small port and as far as i know all NA 4g63 heads were big port(correct me if im wrong

finally, assuming that I can use the starion crank and flywheel..

5. will a clutch designed for an evo or vr4 fit a starion flywheel?
Dont think so, starion clutches are readily available anyway and range from $150 upwards so arent too pricey anyway

Hope this helps

[redzone]

7 bolt generation 2 bottom end parts (ie from anything made after 92 and any evo) wont go into a generation 1 (ie starion) bottom end, so no you will need a fresh set of 88-92 VR4 galant forgies for best results. stock rods are fine up to 7000 rpm.

this talk of early evo rods being weak is bullcrap, YES they are thinner, but they are made of a lighter, stronger more expensive forged steel and were designed that way to improve response..

[stariontron]

thanks for the responses guys. i have both my old set of starion rods, and the evo rods. i'd rather go with anything that bolts in where possible, rather than getting things modified.

so consensus time... ive had a yes and a no on this one... will the evo rods bolt to the starion crank? and if not, will the starion rods work with evo pistons?

widebodywoody, when you refer to redirecting the manifold, is that making it face the oither way? does that mean that an evo 4 manifold will already be facing the correct way, but that it will need some other modification?

im assuming that all evos have the same shape inlet ports then?

[Lunacy]

thanks for the responses guys. i have both my old set of starion rods, and the evo rods. i'd rather go with anything that bolts in where possible, rather than getting things modified.
Well if your going for ease of bolting in then the starion rods will be fine, unless your planning more than 400 odd horsepower

so consensus time... ive had a yes and a no on this one... will the evo rods bolt to the starion crank? and if not, will the starion rods work with evo pistons?
evo rods are narrower so are a no go with the starion crank. Evo pistons can be used if the rod pin ends are machined out to 22mm

widebodywoody, when you refer to redirecting the manifold, is that making it face the oither way? does that mean that an evo 4 manifold will already be facing the correct way, but that it will need some other modification?

im assuming that all evos have the same shape inlet ports then?

Evo1-3 ports are the same, but are different from evo 4 upwards. Am guessing Woody is saying that with the evo1-3 manifold, ul only need to redirect the throttle body to the other end, whereas you may be able to use the later model manifold as its already pointing the right
way, but the ports wont match up

[dwlee]

Yes the evo4 inlet manifold does fit on a evo1-3 head and the ports are the same (within casting tolerance) and they do line up as do the bolt holes. However, the evo4 manfold needs 3 modifications;
1] The flange extension that blocked the egr port on the evo4 head needs to be trimmed off as it hits the timing cover on the evo1-3 head,
2] The injector ports in the evo4 manifold need to be filled using high temperature epoxy or welded, and
3] A spacer is required between the evo4 manifold and the evo1-3 head to block the egr port in the evo1-3 head.

It's your choice which is easier to modify the evo1-3 manifold or the evo4 manifold.

I can take some photos and post them tomorrow if anyone wants them.

[stariontron]

yes please, if you could post them up i'd really appreciate it.. why do the injector ports need to be closed up?

[dwlee]

Ok I'll go out in the cold tonight and take some photos :)

[redzone]

woody was highly mistaken saying that the evo stuff fits, just FYI

[Anchor]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but what are the dudes in the states talking about when they say early DSM?

Is that like our VR4 or Evo ?

[dwlee]

@Anchor: early DSM or gen1 is VR4 and whenever they are talking evo they mean evo4+. When they are talking gen2 DSM they're talking evo1-3.

@stariontron: The reason the injector ports in the evo4 manifold need to be filled is shown in the photos.

Photos of a evo4 manifold on a evo1-3 head with and without the spacer. I forgot to include cutting the fuel rail support on the evo4 manifold in the list of modifications. I also forgot to take a photo of where the flange needs to be cut sorry.

Click on the image to see full sized version.

[WidebodyWoody]

sorry i misread i thought he meant vr4 rods fitting... Or am i wrong about that too?

[redzone]

other than the casting number VR4 and GSR galant and starion rods are identical

[stariontron]

does that mean i'd be better off using VR4 pistons, if they will bolt straight to the starion rods? or will that put the comp ratio out the window?