the shit going down in iraq

[tmz_99]

wouldnt it have been a lot easier to just "take out" saddam and his sons? and now that they are dead and captured what right does the US have to continiue to fight in iraq? who is left for the US to kill? freedom-fighters?

They have intorduced anti-piracy (copyright) laws before the country has a constant water supply.. :S its a screwed up system. if they just eliminated the head of state to start with there wouldnt be any re-building to be done...

In my opinion the US has gone in with too much force where a little could suffice, costing the lives of americans and its allies as well as iraquis, making the muslim world more pissed off at us westerners in the meantime, which in turn makes them more likely to become terrorists and bomb our ass..:S

[Project2501]

tmz_99: taking out saddam would not have guarunteed the US the oh so precious oil supplies. Hence, not a viable option.

I reckon the US are using this "war on terror" as a front to gain advantages that would never have been politically viable. The only countries that continually violate UN decrees (who are part of the UN) are the US, Israel and China. China may be violating HR decrees, but at least they are not invading another country.

However, i digress. Maybe the world NEEDS places like Guantanamo bay. That will keep them funny lookin fellas in check, ay George. Its funny the uproar over the Iraqi prison fiasco, yet events that happen in Guantanamo bay are shrouded in secrecy beyond any and all investigations or commissions.

/me gets off his soapbox

tom.

[CussCuss]

2 heavly armed soldiers are lying uncounsious on the side of the road, a US patrol comes across them as the aussie soldier just starts to regain consiousness. One of the soldiers from the patrol askes him what happened.
"Well, i was walking down the road and i see this heavily armed iraqi soldier, he saw me at about the same time. We bother dived for cover on the side of the road. Into the firefight i yelled "saddams an asshole" and he yelled back "so is john howard".
So there were standing in the middle of the road shaking hands when we got hit by a truck"

[Chryzla]

i like that one :P

IMHO Australia keeps bloody sticking up for america for no good reason.. we are just digging our own graves. WE had no problem with Iraq, think about it, we were selling them produce!!! and yet little Johny had to jump in with him bum-buddy Bush and get us in the firing line too, if we just stayd out of it then we wouldnt be under so much of a threat!

And this latest "Free-Trade Agreement" is absolute bullshit, think about it. It took us to send heaps of soldiers out for them to sign a piece of paper?? and at the end of the day we will get taxed still anyway.

[scum]

The Russians got into their Vietnam right after we got out of ours?
> > > >Isn't that strange?
> > > >
> > > >We supported Bin Laden and the Taliban for years, and viewed them as
> > > >freedom fighters against the Russians? Isn't that strange?
> > > >
> > > >As late as 1998 the US was paying the salary of every single Taliban
> > > >official in Afghanistan? Isn't that strange?
> > > >
> > > >There is more oil and gas in the Caspian Sea area than in Saudi
> > > >Arabia, but you need a pipeline through Afghanistan to get the oil
out.
> > > >Isn't that strange?
> > > >
> > > >UNOCAL, a giant American Oil conglomerate, wanted to build a 1000
> > > >mile long pipeline from the Caspian Sea through Afghanistan to the
> > > >Arabian Sea. Isn't that strange?
> > > >
> > > >UNOCAL spent millions of dollars on geological surveys for pipeline
> > > >construction, and very nicely courted the Taliban for their
> > > >support in allowing the construction to begin. Isn't that strange?
> > > >
> > > >All of the leading Taliban officials were in Texas negotiating with
> > > >UNOCAL in 1998. Isn't that strange?
> > > >
> > > >1998-1999 the Taliban changed its mind and threw UNOCAL out of the
> > > >country and awarded the pipeline project to a company from
> > > >Argentina. Isn't that strange?
> > > >
> > > >John Maresca VP of UNOCAL testified before Congress and said no
> > > >pipeline until the Taliban was gone and a more friendly government
was
> > > >established. Isn't that strange?
> > > >
> > > >1999-2000 The Taliban became the most evil people in the world. Isn't
> > > >that strange?
> > > >
> > > >Niaz Naik, a former Pakistani Foreign Secretary, was told by senior
> > > >American officials in mid-July that military action against
> > > >Afghanistan would go ahead by the middle of October. Isn't that
> > > >strange?
> > > >
> > > >9/11 WTC disaster.
> > > >
> > > >Bush goes to war against Afghanistan even though none of the
hijackers
> > > >came from Afghanistan. Isn't that strange?
> > > >
> > > >Bush blamed Bin Laden but has never offered any proof saying it's a
> > > >"secret". Isn't that strange?
> > > >
> > > >The Taliban offered to negotiate to turn over Bin Laden if we showed
> > > >them some proof. We refused; we bombed. Isn't that strange?
> > > >
> > > >Bush said: "This is not about nation building. It's about getting the
> > > >terrorists." Isn't that strange?
> > > >
> > > >We have a new government in Afghanistan. Isn't that strange?
> > > >
> > > >The leader of that government formerly worked for UNOCAL. Isn't that
> > > >strange?
> > > >
> > > >Bush appoints a special envoy to represent the US to deal with that
> > > >new government, who formerly was the "chief consultant to UNOCAL".
> > > >Isn't
> > > >that strange?
> > > >
> > > >The Bush family acquired their wealth through oil? Isn't that
> > > >strange?
> > > >
> > > >Bush's Secretary of Interior was the President of an oil company
> > > >before going to Washington. Isn't that strange?
> > > >
> > > >George Bush Sr. now works with the "Carlysle Group" specializing in
> > > >huge oil investments around the world. Isn't that strange?
> > > >
> > > >Condoleezza Rice worked for Chevron before going to Washington. Isn't
> > > >that strange?
> > > >
> > > >Chevron named one of its newest "supertankers" after Condolezza.
> > > >Isn't that strange?
> > > >
> > > >Dick Cheney worked for the giant oil conglomerate Halliburton before
> > > >becoming VP. Isn't that strange?
> > > >
> > > >Halliburton gave Cheney a multi-million dollar farewell gift when he
> > > >left Halliburton. Isn't that strange?
> > > >
> > > >Halliburton is in the pipeline construction business. Isn't that
> > > >strange?
> > > >
> > > >There is $6 Trillion worth of oil in the Caspian Sea area. Isn't that
> > > >strange?
> > > >
> > > >The US government quietly announces Jan 31, 2002 we will support the
> > > >construction of the Trans-Afghanistan pipeline. Isn't that strange?
> > > >
> > > >President Musharref (Pakistan), and Karrzai, (Afghanistan -Unocal)
> > > >announce agreement to build proposed gas pipeline from Central Asia
> > > >to Pakistan via Afghanistan. Isn't that strange?
> > > >
> > > >"It's the Oil, Stupid!"

[Chryzla]

amen!

[Project2501]

Gutter Rat: AFAIK the sugar cane industry still hasnt got what it wanted. The PBS will be affected (even if John Howard disputes what analysts who specialise in PBS schemes say). We are basically opening our market to a far greater source of competition, hence there will be a significant increase in foreign owned industries in Australia.

Hence the Free Trade agreement is still not in the best interests of the nation.

Howard has got to be the worst PM ever. Refugees, War, Trade, Lies.. Voting Latham would be choosing the lesser of two evils.

tom.

[Black JA]

isn't that strange? :roll:

[Jesusdroveawestfield]

Geez guys, wake up and smell reality will you.
"Australia keeps sticking up for America for no good reason ?"
It is fortunate that there are older people in this country who remember a little skimish we had back in the 40's. It was called the second world war.
I am assuming that you young university educated people learnt about this at some stage during your indoctrinisation ( sorry I mean education ).
If it was not for America you there would be no Australia period. Has this little fact escaped all of you ?
" America always has a hidden agenda" ?????
And the agenda for coming to our rescue in the second world war was ?
Oh yes thats right they were after our oil, or maybe it was just our land so they could run a pipeline through it ? Funny they didnt stay ?
Why are the US still in Iraq, well that would probably be because they assumed that iraqi's were functioning human beings like the rest of us and just wanted to get on with life and the assumed they would be able to run a country. They would have gladly handed it back by now if the terrorists werent still fighting them.
Now here of course is the classic case of ignorance and mis information


"Hows this for reality: They believe Iraq to be liberated from a tyrant, yet they help a tyrant try and settle in the Gaza strip.


Are you saying the palestinians should be there ? If so I think a little history lesson might be in order. It is Israels land.
Palestinians walk into restaurants and theatres and buses and blow up innocent woman and children.

From what I have gathered from your post. You agree with the palestinians killing people who are trying to live in thier own land. You think that George Bush is an evil man and yet Sadam was not even a tyrant. You believe that US soldiers are committing crimes against prisoners on the same level as the iraqi soldiers did to Jessica Lynch.
You think that the US attacked afgahnistan not because it was the home of Bin Ladin but because of an oil pipe line. You believe that the US did not attack because of september 11.
Wow if you are the cream of our university educated crop then heaven help us all.

By the way I am interested to know your nationality ? I am assuming some middle eastern descent here ?

[tmz_99]

hmmm, hearing the news today it seems the US have done worse then what the iraqis did to J.lynch... not even mentioning the human rights violations occuring in guantamano bay...

I see nothing wrong with the removal of saddam, but dont call iraqi figters terrorists as they are not associated with al-queida and dont use terror tactics on foregin soil. the wars in afghanistan and iraq are 2 completely sperate affiairs which have been grouped together under "the war on terror".. very convenient.

yes, WW][ the US did help out, but ONLY after pearl harbour got bommed (ie: it became a question of protecting their interests as well).
also, i dont believe ALL the US is corrupt, bill clinton seemed like a good president, al gore seemed like a good replacement, it's all bushe's choices and policies that are at fault here, that and the general degregation of morality and ignorance of international human right laws by US troops and US citizens.

Why is it nazi jail guards were trialed for war crimes and sent to jail, for just WATCHING and doing nothing yet US soldiers may only get UP TO 1 year for the shit they did? US soldiers (and in fact any country's) need to be trialed in front of an international court and be subject to the same rules and regulations as all other countries through history.

September 11 was surely an event which gave the US a great excuse to attack afghanistan....but is it the ONLY reason? the US killed more afghani civilians in the war then US civilians that died in sept 11th, and still havent captured bin ladin, wheres the justice there? is it not simply sinking to the same level?

so main points:
1.) bush is an evil man.
2.) the US is getting an uneaven deal on a historical scale - try their criminals like criminals.
3.) iraq / afghanistan = different wars grouped together for conveniance.

yes, I am university educated, and in turn Im sorry to see people as blinded and manipulated by media coverage as yourself, read between the lines and analyse information from all information sources. Im not saying that what u say isnt correct, Im just saying theres far more to it that u seem to dismiss.

[Jesusdroveawestfield]

Oh and for those of you who dont know project 2501and tmz_99 etc get their misguided views from an anti american, pro muslim magazine called "counterpunch"
with such unbiased articles as " is there an islamic problem" by none other than somebody called Shahid Alam.


Oh and you say America only came to our defense once they bombed Pearl ?
Did the fact that Pearl was bombed mean the US had to come to our rescue ?
Dont confuse why they were drawn into the war with the incredible act of sacrifice that thousands of young Americans probably about your age paid to save us. Thank God it was that generation and not yours around at the time.
And as for the comment somebody made about why did we get involved, it wasnt our problem ? Yep thats a great attitude if you see somebody in trouble next time, just keep on driving after all its not your problem.

The future is in good hands I see.

[tmz_99]

And you obviously get your pro-american shit from the australian and american media who in turn is run by europeans. is there a distinction?

[Jesusdroveawestfield]

No actually I get my pro american views from the fact I lived there for a few years in the 80's and am married to one. However most of my life views are from something that you are yet to obtain and that is life experience. I wonder how long it would take people like yourself to finally see the problem. Would it take your parents being blown up. Or would it take your brother or sister going about their lives having to jump 100 stories to their death to escape the fire ? No ? Maybe it would take a young family say a mother or 30 and a father of 32. They saved their money to take thier two young children aged 5 and 7 to New York. A perfect morning, mum packs the bananas in pyjamas back pack for the young girl with some snacks and off they go to see the early morning skyline of New York city from the observation deck of the WTC. Looking out over the skyline the father glances across to his two young childre as they excitedly scan the horizon. He thinks to himself it doesnt get any better than this, they are realy enjoying themselves and it gives him so much pleasure to see his young family experiencing this. Suddenly there is a huge expolosion and the building shakes violently. Terror for his young family rip through his body, the adrenalin is so strong he can hardly stand up. A few second after the impact thick choking black smoke starts to rise up above the roof line. His shcildre scream as people panic, trying to get into the elevators that are no longer working. For a whole stinking hour he has to sit there with his family, knowing they are all going to die and there is nothing he can do about it. Finally as the buidling collapses he loses the grip on his little girls hand and the last thing he sees is the terror in the face of his wife as she holds his son. So dont hive me your university educated mindless slant on the wold. This was reality for so many people and this is the reason that good men like George Bush have made tough decision and this is the reason why men like John Howard wont cave into communists like you and Mark Latham. No I get my views from life, something that maybe one day you will experience if you pull your head out of the text book for a minute

[tmz_99]

hmmm, well.. how sad, really.. :o

what about the wedding that got blown up in iraq the other day? do u think we should be less sympethetic to them? after all, the happiest day of their lives turned into a nightmare due to US bombs..

what about the 1000s of afghani civilians? are their lives worth less then american lives? the 1000s of iraqi civilians? these people didnt ask for the war, and yet becasue of people like george bush, it found them.

the civilian casualty count is not comparable between the allies and iraq/afghanistan (even when counting sept 11)..

im certainly not a communist.. :P in fact being from a country that was communist at one point I have grown quite a dislike for it, but Im certainly not for the deaths of innocents.

[scum]

i dont like yanks.

there, i said it.. nothing personal, i'm sure they dont like me too. :D