Just to clarify, No HID Kit in Australia is street legal if it's been converted aftermarket UNLESS it satisfy's the following...
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/comlaw/Legisla ... enDocument
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/comlaw/Legisla ... enDocument
Which are the applicable ADR's written in physics terms.
To summarise, the common myth of Autolevellers and washer systems is bullshit. What you need is a CLEAR cutoff along the top of the beam and no "hotspotting" in the beam pattern on the road. Also you must use 4000k, 6000k or 8000k bulbs. Other bulb temp's are illegal due to colouration. (All forward facing lights must be clear which is why those little LED washer jets are illegal too).
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And yeah, I know how good HID's are. We have them on two of our cars from the factory. :)
group purchase on hid conversion kits
To simply copy/paste from another forum with reference to a VASS Accredited Mechanical Engineer who wrote there:
"I do agree this is an area with a large amount of information to plough through to find what is necessary.
You attached 2 ADR docs. ADR 77/00 &78/00.
Both these rule sets refer to Design, Testing and Application of Gas discharge devices to automobiles.
The fitment requirements and the operation of the vehicles are referenced in these ADR's at para 2.1 and reference ADR 13/00.
The current revision of ADR13/00 is ADR 13/00 Compilation 2 (August 2007).
To save you going through this lengthy document suggest you refer to Appendix A subparagraph 6.2.6 and 6.2.9.
Now, you can search this document and you will not find reference to HID but will find Gas discharge lamps are defined.
The other information that will help understand the documents' intention in respect to Gas Discharge lamps, is the light output characteristics of these devices, as well an understanding of the change in vehicle orientation particularly its front to rear or "pitch" movement with respect to varying loads.
Currently designed automotive Gas Discharge lamps have a luminous intensity of generally 3,000 to 4,000 lumens, certainly above 2,000 which is within the upper end of Halogen luminence.
Vehicles particularly longer wheel base vehicles have a pitch co-efficient above the allowable Alpha range of 25% (15% up to 10% down), this means they dip at the rear when fully loaded unless significant suspension modification is present and in any case the manufacturer's specification is included in the calculation which effectively means you cannot achieve compliance with respect to vertical orientation with assistance systems.
Now armed with his information we can interpret the ADR.
Leveling devices are referenced at 6.2.6 in detail, both automatic and manual (which incidentally have to be capable of operation from inside the cabin).
At para 6.2.9 the nub of the issue is described, and the second sentence is quite deliberate. Manual leveling systems are not permitted."
"I do agree this is an area with a large amount of information to plough through to find what is necessary.
You attached 2 ADR docs. ADR 77/00 &78/00.
Both these rule sets refer to Design, Testing and Application of Gas discharge devices to automobiles.
The fitment requirements and the operation of the vehicles are referenced in these ADR's at para 2.1 and reference ADR 13/00.
The current revision of ADR13/00 is ADR 13/00 Compilation 2 (August 2007).
To save you going through this lengthy document suggest you refer to Appendix A subparagraph 6.2.6 and 6.2.9.
Now, you can search this document and you will not find reference to HID but will find Gas discharge lamps are defined.
The other information that will help understand the documents' intention in respect to Gas Discharge lamps, is the light output characteristics of these devices, as well an understanding of the change in vehicle orientation particularly its front to rear or "pitch" movement with respect to varying loads.
Currently designed automotive Gas Discharge lamps have a luminous intensity of generally 3,000 to 4,000 lumens, certainly above 2,000 which is within the upper end of Halogen luminence.
Vehicles particularly longer wheel base vehicles have a pitch co-efficient above the allowable Alpha range of 25% (15% up to 10% down), this means they dip at the rear when fully loaded unless significant suspension modification is present and in any case the manufacturer's specification is included in the calculation which effectively means you cannot achieve compliance with respect to vertical orientation with assistance systems.
Now armed with his information we can interpret the ADR.
Leveling devices are referenced at 6.2.6 in detail, both automatic and manual (which incidentally have to be capable of operation from inside the cabin).
At para 6.2.9 the nub of the issue is described, and the second sentence is quite deliberate. Manual leveling systems are not permitted."
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RiceThief
- my mangina paid for my staz
- Posts: 2129
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:23 pm
- Location: Brisbane
Look at how much info you included in your first post, it wasnt until redzone mentioned about the ballast that you stated its included. It wasnt until i mentioned to get the hi/low version that you went on your rant. How are people suppose to make an informed decision when you left out so much information, should we just assume you got everything right and leave it all to you. But wait isn't that akin to "holding everybody's hand"?juice_2 wrote:why is it vague rice theif what do you want to know, if i say i can get hid kits that suit or cars wouldnt it be safe to say they are a kit ie: includes everything and also is h4 to suit. do i have to hold everybody's hand and spell it out. is every single member on here a that stupid that this has to be done. i think not. why would i get interest, and i emphasis interest on a group by of hid kits that were not for starions. some members here make the mind boggle.
Anyway its your group buy and i wont waste my time posting in it anymore, as you stated some members on here make the mind boggle :roll: .
guys.. please.. wtf is wrong with everyone? it's almost holiday season and everyone's fighting. we all have the common goal of wanting to improve our cars, without having to spend like the government to do so. Common goal guys.
juice_2:
Thank you for doing the research on these kits and bringing it to our attention, and thanks heaps as well for attempting to put together a group buy. We need more effort like yours with the HIDs, JD_Stazza_Brendan's with the braided clutch and oil cooler lines, and RiceThief's for spending time during his holiday overseas to see what can be done about cost effective coilovers. You guys rock, and make life so much easier for dimwits like me who have no/little technical knowledge about this stuff. Oh and speaking of technical know how, thanks Enteran for all that info and research.. i didn't understand any of it :P but i know some brainstorming between you guys will lead you to work it out :beer
My point is, if you go back and read RiceThief's original post about the hi/lo beams, he wasn't trying to say that you don't know what you're doing or haven't done your research, he just wanted to help us all ensure that we didn't end up buying the wrong things. It's reassuring for you to say "yes, i have confirmed that the ballasts are included, and also that the lights work as hi and low beams". You must admit, your initial post did lack these details - this is not a problem really, but these details are bound to come up anyway, as it would be better to ensure this before buying, as opposed to finding out that it's not the case after the deal is done.
It's not a matter of trusting your technical know-how, or even of why would someone put up a group buy if they haven't done their research, but rather it's a matter of most people not knowing you personally. I would be 100% certain that you have more technical knowledge than i do, even though i've never met you.. But the fact is, i've never met you, so i don't know if your just an eager enthusiast like me, or a mechanic with 30 years experience, or someone somewhere in between.. so verification that you've done the research is nice, you know?
This is just a misunderstanding. One person makes a comment, and another person takes it the wrong way, and retaliates. the first person then retaliates, and a small misunderstanding ends up in a massive argument. life is too short for this shit.. Please guys.. let's drop the egos and get on with the group buy.
juice_2:
Thank you for doing the research on these kits and bringing it to our attention, and thanks heaps as well for attempting to put together a group buy. We need more effort like yours with the HIDs, JD_Stazza_Brendan's with the braided clutch and oil cooler lines, and RiceThief's for spending time during his holiday overseas to see what can be done about cost effective coilovers. You guys rock, and make life so much easier for dimwits like me who have no/little technical knowledge about this stuff. Oh and speaking of technical know how, thanks Enteran for all that info and research.. i didn't understand any of it :P but i know some brainstorming between you guys will lead you to work it out :beer
My point is, if you go back and read RiceThief's original post about the hi/lo beams, he wasn't trying to say that you don't know what you're doing or haven't done your research, he just wanted to help us all ensure that we didn't end up buying the wrong things. It's reassuring for you to say "yes, i have confirmed that the ballasts are included, and also that the lights work as hi and low beams". You must admit, your initial post did lack these details - this is not a problem really, but these details are bound to come up anyway, as it would be better to ensure this before buying, as opposed to finding out that it's not the case after the deal is done.
It's not a matter of trusting your technical know-how, or even of why would someone put up a group buy if they haven't done their research, but rather it's a matter of most people not knowing you personally. I would be 100% certain that you have more technical knowledge than i do, even though i've never met you.. But the fact is, i've never met you, so i don't know if your just an eager enthusiast like me, or a mechanic with 30 years experience, or someone somewhere in between.. so verification that you've done the research is nice, you know?
This is just a misunderstanding. One person makes a comment, and another person takes it the wrong way, and retaliates. the first person then retaliates, and a small misunderstanding ends up in a massive argument. life is too short for this shit.. Please guys.. let's drop the egos and get on with the group buy.
quest wrote:don't try explaining that to her tho..... just leave. lolWANTSOM wrote:Personally, I find sloppy boxes very unsatisfying. I like them tight and taught to the point that if you dont have to push to get it in then its probably too old and time to get a new one :P
Hey I was just trying to inform you all :)
By all means, grab the HID kits, they are Useful especially considering the fading yellowed beams that 80's models cars have for headlights. The difference will be INSANE.
Also, 6000k bulbs are closest to natural sunlight and cause the least eye fatigue.
Also, it is 99% impossible to make HID's road legal for a car that doesn't have them from the factory. So expect them to fail Roadworthy checks and/or be defectable. But hey, most of us have external wastegates and missing cats, aftermarket management, cams, etc anyway right? :) What's one more! Sure didn't stop me, I have HID's.
It was more or less just an FYI link so you guys know the exact laws you're dealing with.
By all means, grab the HID kits, they are Useful especially considering the fading yellowed beams that 80's models cars have for headlights. The difference will be INSANE.
Also, 6000k bulbs are closest to natural sunlight and cause the least eye fatigue.
Also, it is 99% impossible to make HID's road legal for a car that doesn't have them from the factory. So expect them to fail Roadworthy checks and/or be defectable. But hey, most of us have external wastegates and missing cats, aftermarket management, cams, etc anyway right? :) What's one more! Sure didn't stop me, I have HID's.
It was more or less just an FYI link so you guys know the exact laws you're dealing with.
personally, i find it really annoying when some jackwit civic driver puts uberbright HIDs on his fruitcart and blinds everyone else on the road.. I really want to install a switch that will turn my high beams on and also angle my lights slightly to the right, so that i can blind the fuckers every time i see them..
but then.. the coppers don't seem to care eh? I've never seen a civic or the like pulled over for having blinding lights.. cops only ever use it as an excuse if they pull over someone with a skyline or supra or other fast car that's actually been done properly and legally.
So i guess.. if you can't beat em, join em!
but then.. the coppers don't seem to care eh? I've never seen a civic or the like pulled over for having blinding lights.. cops only ever use it as an excuse if they pull over someone with a skyline or supra or other fast car that's actually been done properly and legally.
So i guess.. if you can't beat em, join em!
quest wrote:don't try explaining that to her tho..... just leave. lolWANTSOM wrote:Personally, I find sloppy boxes very unsatisfying. I like them tight and taught to the point that if you dont have to push to get it in then its probably too old and time to get a new one :P
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