Got my car dynotuned the other day coz my emmissions were a little bit over the top.
Its a JA and is basically stock standard. The engine is in pretty mint condition and it goes pretty quick (according to me ). The only other thing i have is a cat convertor in it now too.
Anyway got 66.8 kw at the wheels.
Sad but funny. (The guy who dyno'ed it thought so too)
i'm actually not too disapointed as i stopped living in the hot4's world ages ago where people believe adding an air filter will give you 5 kw etc etc.
what do u consider a reliable measure of power? obviously you cant say the track as it encompasses such factors as driver error, car weight, traction, etc... so other then a dyno, what else is there?
Of course the track (drag and circuit) is the best indication of a car's ability. A car is not just dependant on power. There's suspension, weight and driver skill. All variants that make a huge difference to the performance of a car that a dyno cannot measure.
Like they say - when the flag drops the bullshit stops.
so what would be a accurate way of measuring a cars hp, i always thought a dyno was the way to go, i mean i knew diff dynos would come up with diff power figures but would of only thought by +/- few kw
ur right about the track though...if you cant really prove the hp figure, u can prove it on the track
Depends on the dyno setup. Also gotta remember that 66 odd kw isn't that suprising.
Being a JA I'm guessing it has no intercooler, and its 20+ years old, can't expect high power figures. Also the high emissions may be caused by faulty plugs or leads, and he's added a cat convertor. Remember how the US got the 2.6L engine purely to counter-act the cat convertor for emissions?
As for dyno comparisons, they are just an estimate but are generally accurate if you avoid 'rolling-road' dynos, and ensure that you have a large fan blowing air to the intercooler - otherwise it'll heat up and have big trouble.
Agreed though, they are just a tuning tool. The best car comparison is ET times on a 1/4 mile. I think thats what truely counts. You can put a V8 in a stock standard Anglea - it may have 1000hp, but it aint going no where without grip or suspension. I say 1/4 mile not track because 1/4 mile is a lot easier, and tends to elimate driver error to some degree.
Good on ya for posting your results Tungsten :) Please tell me more about the car and the dyno, Im curious, as my comments above were just guesses :D
1997 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IV 4G63BT
1996 Nissan Maxima VQ30DE (for sale, suit someone who likes the feel of boats when driving)
yes but what your not seeing cookie is that hes talking about the power of the car (66.8kw) not how fast it goes around the track its two different things.
Although the track may be a way to see how driver and car go. It still dosen't show the cars own power and torque figures, and a track won't show power gains apart from the driver going Woohoo or if the driver is a consistant lap time achiever then gain will be able to be seen via the lap time, but this isn't accurate.
Power and Torque figures on new cars are the main factor revheads look at. Marketing companies around the world know this and always mention power figures if they are trying to sell a sporty or faster car or 4WD.
I wouldn't buy a car that said it had less than 100kw unless it weighed 500kg.
Anyways My opinion :) c o n t r a v e r s e y!! say it again! :D
Cheers
Ben
I realise that. My point being a wheel dyno should not be relied upon to give an accurate power figure of the engine.
Both a dyno and track times will not tell you how much power a car is really producing.. but at least track times give an indication of how well a car actually performs.
If all we are interested in is power then why are we not all building just engines.. on engine stands.. and hooking them upto engine dynos.
I guess my point is power isn't everything. And even if it was everything a road dyno cannot measure it accurately.. as Tungsten will attest to.
Dyno operators are like EFI engine tuners - they vary a LOT. I've used dynos and I've tuned lots of ECU's in my work and it takes a lot of skill to do either properly. I don't claim to be good at either, but I can appreciate the knowledge and effort required to do be good at it.
As an example, if you mis-place the air intake probe on a Dyno Dynamics to make it read hotter, it will multiply the power reading by a factor. Typically, this might be 1.02 or something very small to compensate for higher than normal intake temps under dyno conditions. However, if you're a dodgy operator, you can leave the probe leaning against the raditor or near the exhaust, which makes the dyno think conditions are worse which leads to an optimistic reading if the compensation is turned on. There are hundreds of tricks like these. A dyno is very much a BS in, BS out device. So why not turn the compensation off? Well then it leads to arguements like, "You dyno run was done under cooler conditions than mine."
I agree that dyno readings taken from different places and different times are useless for absolute comparison, but if you know the dyno operator and the equipment is good, they should be in the same ball park.
Both my Starion and Galant VX-S were rated ~190hp @ flywheel from factory. They're the same weight, use the same engine block. Difference is Starion uses a turbo to make up for the lack of MPI and DOHC (and the 11.8:1 factory compression ratio).
Thats one of my big piss offs with car companies, we measure at the wheels, but car companies measure it at the flywheel.
As for bad dyno users - my mate has a Pulsar GTiR that was modified, we estimated 300hp @ 18psi at the wheels (being a 4WD that could wheelspin at 100KPH).
This is what the result was:
Power at wheels: 147hp (rougly factory Starion, how many factory Starions can do 200 in 14 seconds? with an extra 300kg I might add)
Boost level: 47psi (what? was he drunk? on 96 octane??)
1997 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IV 4G63BT
1996 Nissan Maxima VQ30DE (for sale, suit someone who likes the feel of boats when driving)
I still think that the quarter mile is a very good indicator of real horsepower. ET's can be used to indicate the amount of power that a car has, however, it is the trap speed that will allow a close estimation of an engine's power output. This is due to the fact that there may be other considerations that may effect the ET (such as driver error and wheelspin). There are plenty of online calculators that can work out a car's engine output (usually at the wheels) and they have been proven to be quite accurate.
Having said this, the only benefit that a dyno provides is a relative comparison of an engine's power at that point in time. It is indeed mainly a tuning tool. Comparing one dyno readout to another dyno readout will not allow an accurate comparison of figures due to the number of variables that can affect the figures (as Will mentioned). Some dyno companies are endeavouring to establish a standard format for their dyno's that will allow them to be compared to another (certified) dyno. This is done via certain variables being set to the same paramaters on each of those dynos in order to compare the figures from one dyno to another. Dyno Dynamics has established this system for alot of their dyno's so that if a car is dyno'd on one of their certified dyno's and is later dyno'd on another one of their certified dyno's, then the readouts can be compared (within a small margin of error).
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). The only other thing i have is a cat convertor in it now too.
