Power Steering Question

[bazeng]

hey guys

im considering removing P/S

now, im just wondering

1. what cars share the same steering rack (something non power steering)
and also
2. would i damage anything if i just ran the rack without the pump / lines (eg. looping the lines at the rack)

suggestions?
advice?

btw, do stazza's have P/Steering?
i wonder if the rack's are the same as the vr4's?

[NachoMan]

Yes Starions have power steering stock.
Running without the pump attached or being connected will not damage the car. You may, however, develop forearms like Schwarzenegger's.

[fr335tyl3r]

Has anyone got a solution for the situation where u have a large stainless steel intake pipe bloking where the power steering unit should be sitting?

I would like to have power steering, but do not really want to get rid of or remake the intake

[flav]

Starions dont have a rack, they have a box. You could try some other box like sigma GJ, GK, GN or scorpion, but i think all scorps were power steer.
Why would you remove it anyway? The gain is Tiny in terms of power and it turns the car into a non responsive shitter.

[Starion VR4]

Scorpions have manual steering box, they will fit, but as stated above the power gain is about 1HP!!!! Look at all the V8 touring cars they all run power assist, when travelling in straight line very very little power is being taken away from the engine, its only when you crank in heaps of steering that it gets pressure drop on pump side and therefore starts to use power they consume about 2-4HP total not worth it is it?
Now as for relocation, remove the resevitor on top of pump, mount on guard and run lines to pump, there is no pressure from tank to pump so dont be worried about leaks, better still is to go get a VL commodore power steer tank and mount it.....

My 2 cents worth. :beer :beer :beer :beer

[bazeng]

ah thanks for that guys

i was considering it due to the fact that my swift gti doesn't have p/s and its not hard to drive at all...

as for the power gain, if its that little, it may not be worth it
i guess the only gain is space?!?!..

i've noticed not many do it also, but i mean every little bit helps i guess

okay, so say if i were to just but the belt for the pump, would the steering system be okay still? just so i can get a feel of how the car would feel without p/s??

also i guess the weight saving..
10 - 15kg's? with liquid..

but good advice guys..
appreciate it

[Chris 83JA]

i was considering it due to the fact that my swift gti doesn't have p/s and its not hard to drive at all...

most cars that don't have power steering have concessions built into the design to make them easier to steer, such as different suspension settings, narrower tyers, different ratio boxes and different sized steering wheels.

A starion is much harder to drive without power steering than even an old tank like a kingswood

[igottasicjb]

the option i'm undertaking/investigating atm is making up a new bracket out of 10mm stainless steel plate so i can reposition the pump were the aircon compressor used to sit. as the pump is gravity fed i don't see any probs with it running upside down and then just re-route the lines using speedflow fittings and hose. P/S fluid container can sit up in the top right hand corner of the engine bay near the charcol canister. i will take some pics if it works out.

[AB]

My Cordia has no power steering and it is fine to drive when your moving over about 5kmh or so but damn near impossible to do nice smooth lock to lock parallel parking, you pretty much have to stop halfway and swing the wheel right around then keep going and repeat. It's a bastard. I'm going to be putting power steering in when I put in my dash engine.

The advantage to having no power steering is you get a much better feel of the road as the p/s system gives you very little feedback, of course the disadvantage is it damn hard to park. Ever been in a car park where someone has blocked you in with only 15cm or so at each end and you have to do a 10 point turn? That is NOT fun in a non power steering car.

[bazeng]

i dont mind that its harder
im just wondering "HOW HARD"

i've owned a few non power steering cars before
mazda 626 82 model
swift gti 89 model

its no big dead as its not gonna be a daily driver..
it will be a track car and a weekend cruiser

would their be any chance that a cordia rack would fit a vr4?

[dirtygalant]

This is for your E39A VR-4 I take it?

If so, isn't there a base model Galant (it's called a GL over here, 1600cc SOHC carby motor) with non power steering? I think you aussies only got the 2L models yeah? I'm talking about the '87 to '92 E3xA shape.. you aussies got them in 1989 and called them the HG and HH.

Again, the Galants with no power steering only weigh 1050kg, larger turning circle, and run 13" narrow tires.

Removing power steering is hardly a weight saving either, as you have to replace the rack with another rack anyway. You'll be looking at 10kgs max I think. I've still got all the power steering gear from my parts Galant, power steering pump, resiviour, all lines etc - and they aren't that heavy.

[bazeng]

would also clean up the bay i guess
but one of the main issues is the pulley
i've removed the water pump pulley (electronic water pump)
and the ps pulley runs off the water pump pulley..

i've been told i can just loop the lines (fill it up with oil first)
and it'll run like that..
meant to be okay aswell..

well i guess i'll only find out if i try it hey..
thanks for the advice guys

as for the carby galants, nah all our galants are Fuel injected..
and all power steering

[bazeng]

update:
i've been told i can just loop the racks lines..
as long as there is oil in the rack it should be fine..

this solves the problem of finding a manual rack

now, for the second questions

will this disadvantage a track car?
is a track car without p/s harder to drive?
or is it pretty much the same or better??? (due to feel of the road)

anyway, suggestions from those who race would be appreciated

(corners.. not straight line racing)

[dirtygalant]

Argh. You fail to miss some very IMPORTANT points.

If you simply disconnect the power steering pump and loop the lines on a power steering rack, it wont work like a MANUAL steering rack. It will be incredibly hard to steer. Try taking off the power steering belt, and go for a drive. This is essentially what it will be like.

So YES this WILL disadvantage a track car. As mentioned above, the V8 Super cars HAVE power steering! Most track cars do! Lightweight track cars usually don't have power steering, but an E39A whale is far from that!

Ask yourself, why are you truely wanting to remove power steering? You will actually disadvantage yourself, and go through a whole lot of hassle for nothing. Is this all for show?

[bazeng]

nah, i have to decide:
reasons:

- no water pump pulley (davis craig pump)
the powersteering comes off the water pump pulley.. so basically the pulley will have to be lined up by making a new bracket or a custom pulley

- cleaner bay
- less weight

basically this is a drag car.. but i will want to race it on the track in the future..

so i need to know if turning is okay..

as for looping.. i've been told by a person in the states that has done it to their eclipse.. and he claims that his wife who is 5"6 can drive it.. (in other words.. not hard to drive at all)..

i just want to decide before the engine goes in.. it'll be much easier for me to loop the lines / remove the lines before the motor gets dropped in thats all..

any other opinions?

as for the ratio.. how does it work?
non power steering rack vs power steering rack?

does this mean if i turn the steering wheel one revolution on a power steering rack.. the front wheels will turn less than a non power steering rack would?

would i be able to simulate this by driving, switching the engine off and steering?.. would this be realistic??