Austarion

Backgorund:
I had the Starting and Running problem in post;
http://forums.austarion.com/viewtopic.php?t=14370
The car now starts fine, but it's running is bad.. It's missing :(
When the engine is put under load, it has no power.

Theory:
I have 2 major Theory's that I really hope are the problem (Otherwise I am lost). If I cannot figure it out and fix it, then I'll have to take it to a Mechanic. I didn't want to because this is my Project/learning Car!
It's my Project/learning Car, So please Teach me :)

Theory 1: Vacuum Lines.
I used the Diagram in;
http://forums.austarion.com/viewtopic.p ... =vac*+line
But I still couldn't figure it out. My Starion has afew leads going no-where. I am not sure if it's because it's been modified and not needed, or the cause of the problem. I know the Air-conditioning system was removed.
I circled the Vacuum lines that confused me. "Red, Yellow and Green"
(Update: Third post contains a picture of Green and Red)

NOTE: I tried to block the line and plugs off 1 by 1 and all together to see if it made a change. Engine didn't sound any different.
Please inform me which need to be blocked off, and what needs to be connected where. I can take more photo's of any area you like if needed.

Theory 2: Spark plug leads, distributor and timing
NOTE: Spark plus and their leads have been replace in the last few days
When we hooked up a timing light to "lead 1" it didn't continually fire. it'd stop for a sec and then start blinking normal again.
The Distributor is clearly "Used", probably from a wreckers. It's got white out marks on it. After looking at the Distributor cap, all the connects except "Lead 1" look clean and new. The connect for "Lead 1" is alittle brown and looks like it's been chipped away.
I will be replacing the Distributor cap, but do you feel it could be a problem?

The Spark Plug leads could be around the wrong way. So I just want to double check.


Piston 1 to 4. What order do they Fire?

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Questions I need Answers to:

1.
A. What RED, YELLOW and GREEN are?
B. Where are they meant to go? or should they be blocked off?

2.
A. What is the Order of fire between the pistons?
B. Could the Dis Cap be causing the misfires?
C. Could it just be the tuning?

I desperately need this figured by Monday 9/1/12.
Thank You!

I'll start:

Answer to 2A: 1,3,4,2

OldManMike wrote:I'll start:

Answer to 2A: 1,3,4,2

So, then the distributor cap should have the Spark plug leads numbered like this:
(Bottom being Piston/Lead 1)



Also, Here is another Picture of the Vacuum Line that I had to Draw:
(Green and Red)

Correct.

I don't know if you know this or not, but the order on the cap will be determined by two things, firstly where the rotor sits when at TDC, with the valves fully closed on No. 1 cylinder, and the rotation of the distributor.

Also, what spark plugs and gap are you running? A gap that is too large can allow the spark to be "blown out" when on boost, causing misfires.

Re: timing light, (I've done it myself so I'm not taking the piss) make sure you have the pickup on the spark lead in the correct orientation, as reversed polarity will produce intermittent flashes. Oh, and on No.1 lead as well, as putting it on the wrong lead will make you shit your pants thinking that the timing belt has just jumped a dozen teeth!

OldManMike wrote:Correct.

Also, what spark plugs and gap are you running? A gap that is too large can allow the spark to be "blown out" when on boost, causing misfires.

I am using the same Spark Plugs & Leads that are directed for the Model. I made sure they were the same Ref-number and even got a Sale-man to check on the system to be certain. I also checked the length, when matching up the Leads.

I think I understand the spark and tuning problem and how to fix it. Tho, without information on the Vacuum lines, I am still not 100% sure if I'll get it up and running by Monday :/

Anyone got information on the Vacuum lines?

Testing Top-Dead-Center (TDC) Timing:
I just removed the First Spark Plug and used a wrench on the crankshaft pulley bolt to move the piston to TDC, while using a Screw driver to fell it.
I was hoping to see the Engraved Marking on the Cam Gear at either the very top, or very bottom.

This is what I got:



Questions:

3.
A. Is there a possible logical reason why the Cam is at around 90 degrees?
B. Is it possible it's fine, and that the cam wasn't back on with the correct grove facing up?
C. Could this be the soul issue causing me problems?

You sure you are TDC on the compression stroke?

The orange circled mark is the timing mark on the cam wheel. It should be here at TDC compression..



You're exactly 180 degrees out there so I reckon it's correct, and you're not on the compression stroke.

Cookiemonster wrote: You're exactly 180 degrees out there so I reckon it's correct, and you're not on the compression stroke.

Thank You Cookie!
I was told by afew Mechanics it should be at the very top or very bottom.
I guess they never worked on Starion's tho :P

You've ruled out that;
So, that leaves:

A. Dizzy Cap
B. Vacuum Lines
C. Dizzy timing or Fuel/air Tuning.
D. I am sooo totally fucked!

Can anyone Please shed some light on "The Mystical Vacuum Line Confusion!"

There is a vacuum diagram in this post..

http://forums.austarion.com/viewtopic.php?t=8493&

Although it's a bit hard to follow. Worth a shot though.

Some pics in this post may help with vac lines too..

http://forums.austarion.com/viewtopic.php?t=10100

When the engine is at TDC, the rotor button should be at about 8o'clock (going to cylinder number 1) If not, the dizzy may be mis aligned (i.e one tooth on the cam out). The car should be able to idle but if it's out you won't be able to get the timing within the correct range (you should be able to make the light pulse move about +/- 20 degrees)

To fix, if this is the case, set engine to TDC, pull the dizzy out and notice the rotor button/shaft will rotate as you take it out. Note where it comes out, rotate it slightly and then re-insert the dizzy. The rotor should be at 8. do up the dizzy bolt, start and time accordingly.

Cookiemonster wrote:There is a vacuum diagram in this post..

http://forums.austarion.com/viewtopic.php?t=8493&

Although it's a bit hard to follow. Worth a shot though.

I used that Link already. Even posted it up top to show that :P
But yes, your completely correct. Very hard to follow! It didn't really help me to much... :x

Cookiemonster wrote:Some pics in this post may help with vac lines too..

http://forums.austarion.com/viewtopic.php?t=10100

...... I want to make Sweet Sweet Love to you Cookie!!! LOL

This just might be the break I have been looking for! I'll match up those lines to mine and give it a go!
I don't know if it will fix the problem where it doesn't have power under load, but its a start!

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Alspos wrote:When the engine is at TDC, the rotor button should be at about 8o'clock (going to cylinder number 1) If not, the dizzy may be mis aligned (i.e one tooth on the cam out). The car should be able to idle but if it's out you won't be able to get the timing within the correct range (you should be able to make the light pulse move about +/- 20 degrees)

To fix, if this is the case, set engine to TDC, pull the dizzy out and notice the rotor button/shaft will rotate as you take it out. Note where it comes out, rotate it slightly and then re-insert the dizzy. The rotor should be at 8. do up the dizzy bolt, start and time accordingly.

I am extremely confused by afew of the things you stated.

"When the engine is at TDC, the rotor button should be at about 8o'clock (going to cylinder number 1)"
I was under the impression that the dizzy turned Clockwise. If it turns Anti-clockwise, then my Leads are in the wrong order. please re-explain.
Here is my fail Paint skills at work:

(NOTE: The contact at P1 on the distributor cap is alittle worn. I tried to show that in my drawing)

Bruzman

A few things to check, when the engine starts, does the vacuum/boost gauge move on the dash, if so, what vacuum is it reading, they have a problem of the lines cracking to the MAP sensor, located above the brake booster on the firewall, check you haven't got 2 plug leads crossed.
wind the motor over and align the TDC mark up on the cam gear to the notch on the left side of the head just below the join on the tappet cover as well as aligning the mark on the crankshaft, remove the distributor cap, the rotor should be facing down, rotate the clockwise a small amount make note the direction the rotor is moving, the next lead on the distributor should be cylinder 3, then 4 and 2.

if this is all OK, i would remove the inspection plate in the boot floor to the left of the spare type, remove the fuel going into the fuel pump, there is a small conical filter fitted into the inlet of the fuel pump, sometimes it get stuck into the fuel line, remove this filter and check if it is blocked, i had the same thing happen to my car, it would start and have no power under load. if the filter is blocked, maybe remove the the fuel pickup from the tank, clean the pickup, check the tank for rust as well

(NOTE: This post has been edited and updated)

John196701 wrote:A few things to check, when the engine starts, does the vacuum/boost gauge move on the dash, if so, what vacuum is it reading, they have a problem of the lines cracking to the MAP sensor, located above the brake booster on the firewall, check you haven't got 2 plug leads crossed.

This is the reading I got as soon as I turned the car on and let it idle for 5-6 seconds.

John196701 wrote:wind the motor over and align the TDC mark up on the cam gear to the notch on the left side of the head just below the join on the tappet cover as well as aligning the mark on the crankshaft, remove the distributor cap, the rotor should be facing down, rotate the clockwise a small amount make note the direction the rotor is moving, the next lead on the distributor should be cylinder 3, then 4 and 2.

I replaced the Distributor cap and Rotor/Point this morning.
Here is an image of my TDC, Dizzy degrees and the position of the Rotor:

John196701 wrote:if this is all OK, i would remove the inspection plate in the boot floor to the left of the spare type, remove the fuel going into the fuel pump, there is a small conical filter fitted into the inlet of the fuel pump, sometimes it get stuck into the fuel line, remove this filter and check if it is blocked, i had the same thing happen to my car, it would start and have no power under load. if the filter is blocked, maybe remove the the fuel pickup from the tank, clean the pickup, check the tank for rust as well

I had a suspicion it wasn't getting enough fuel at times.I know for a fact that the Fuel Pump was replaced 12 months ago. I replaced the fuel filter and checked the lines.
Now I know the how to get into the fuel tank. I'll look for this "Inspection Plate" tomorrow.

I quickly tried checking for the inspection plate. I couldn't see or find it. I was eager to update this post, so I keep moving.

Thank you for the Help John196701

Now, for something I solved (I think).
(Tell me what you think. I'll have questions at the end)

I purchased a "Workshop Repair Service Manual for 82-88 Starion".
Using the new Vacuum line Diagram, I think I discovered the where the "RED" lead goes. It's meant to go to the "EGR control solenoid valve" which just happens to be "Green".



The Questions I have now:
4.
A. What does the ->A mean? Should I worry about it?
B. It is completely logical that "Red" connects to "Green". So would the "EGR Control" be able to cause some of the problems I have been having?
C. Is what I circled "Yellow" correct? Is it the "Purge Control Valve"?

In my last post I showed that the "EGR control Solenoid Valve" wasn't Connected.

So, I did some research on the EGR. Alot of sites explained what they did, but not what happens when they play up. Here is two that did:

"If the engine stumbles or stalls at idle or lacks power under load, EGR may be staying on and not shutting off. On the other hand, if the engine is pinking at cruise, EGR may not be turning on to cool down combustion chamber temperatures. "
- http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/egr.htm

"Pros: The EGR valve is vital to your car's emission controls.
Cons: When the EGR valve goes bad, it must be replaced.
Description: EGR Valve = Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve. The EGR valve controls formation of noxious emissions. Rough idle and poor acceleration can be caused by a faulty EGR valve."
- http://autorepair.about.com/od/glossary ... -valve.htm

It Idled fine, Revved fine.. (Tho, it sometimes stalled for no reason after a minute or too).
BUT, the major concern was the "Lack of Power Under Load"!

I'll do everything tomorrow and see how it goes! LOL