Do I need oil squirters?

stariontron · Post by **stariontron** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:40 am

After waiting for ages for a starion block, I'm starting to wonder whether I can use a non turbo 4g63 engine block that I already have as basis for a build up. I know that you can add oil squirters to the blocks, but I have no idea how much work that will entail. Question is though; do I absolutely have to have them? Won't be going more than 300hp/7000 rpm tops. Would be interested in hearing other people's opinions. Unsure if I will be using forged pistons at this stage. Thanks in advance.

redzone · Post by **redzone** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:39 am

no you dont, but it is recommended for extra piston life. the squirters cool the piston crown.

Starion VR4 · Post by **Starion VR4** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:53 pm

Put it this way... how much do U think it cost Mitsubishi to test, modify & put into production? Millions!!! if it wasn't necessary they wouldn't of done it! My 2 cents... make sure U have them in :beer

stariontron · Post by **stariontron** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:47 am

Starion VR4 wrote:Put it this way... how much do U think it cost Mitsubishi to test, modify & put into production? Millions!!! if it wasn't necessary they wouldn't of done it! My 2 cents... make sure U have them in :beer

im sure mitsi spent millions testing my aircon system too... that didnt save it :D

ive actually got another starion block lined up, its just the guy has disappeared off the face of the earth :x

quest · Post by **quest** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:54 pm

mitsu was interested in 200hp, 100k+ miles and they write warrantys. Squirters overkill maybe ?
Seen too many normally aspirated motors do fine with hefty turbo systems bolted on.
for example
Some daily driven toyota corollas gone low 10s without spray. Done reliably, using their lowly 1.8L 2 valve mule. I doubt toyota engineers ever had anything like that in mind for the 3TC back in the early 70s

smodgee · Post by **smodgee** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:08 pm

i think the new mustang motors have only just got squirters in there 5.0, would be better to have them but dont think its the end of the world if missing.

Starion VR4 · Post by **Starion VR4** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:31 pm

If a car Manufacturer can save 5c per car, THEY WILL DO IT. If it wasn't

required they would of saved money, yes engines will run ok without them,

but for long life & sustained duration, U must have them. :beer

quest · Post by **quest** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:29 pm

in addition to the 3TC corollas mentioned above, there too many other examples to list.....
A whole community of folks bolting turbochargers to their stock normally aspirated 2JZGE powered daily drivers, for years now..... where 3, 4, 500hp is not uncommon

Lots of turboford 2.3L sohc 2 valve motors, well past 200,000 miles, a few past 300k, still on their original blocks! Some street beasts in excess of 500 ft-lbs tq!

So what you're saying is, "for long life & sustained duration, U must have them" ?

thrash · Post by **thrash** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:50 am

i'm by no means knowledgeable with regards to engines - you guys are infinately more knowledgeable than i -Starion VR4 is an engine builder i believe? and quest, i don't know what you do, but i'm absolutely certain that you have more skill and experience than I do. So, looking at this from a purely logical standpoint, I would say that both of your arguments seem to be a tad flawed.

quest.. different motors have completely different designs - perhaps the fords and toyotas you speak of have engine designs that inherently do not need the squirters, and perhaps the mitsu motors do.. in this respect, the statement made by Starion Vr4 that mitsu 4g63t motors are better off with squirters makes sense, and I think it would be unfair to compare this to other motors - indeed, the 4agze had oil squirters, so Toyota did eventually put them in when they built their own boosted motor. Still doesn't prove they are crucial in any way, but the thought that goes thru my head is, if they are available, why leave them out? Oh, and it was 170hp, not 200 :P (other than the dash of course)

Starion Vr4, it is not necessarily true that the manufacturer would have left them out and saved the 5c per motor if they weren't absolutely necessary. Remember that warranties come into the equation. An engineer will always want to be on the safe side and put the squirters in, especially if it costs only an extra 5c or whatever. The accoutants are the ones who will be questioning whether it's beneficial to spend that extra 5c or not, and the engineers can justify it fairly easily since the accountants know nothing of how necessary they really are in technical terms. Further to that, it may also have been cheaper for them to just put them in instead of actually doing full research to see if they were necessary. If the research costs tens of thousands of dollars up front with no guarantee that it will save them much money, then it may have been more feasible for them to skip that research and just go with the safer option. With these two reasons in mind, I don't feel it is a reasonable argument to state that the manufacturer did it.

Stariontron, if you are able to get the squirters, fantastic - put em in. As they say, better be safe than sorry.. But if you can't find em, or they are costing you an arm and a leg, then maybe you should just try your luck without them.. your motor might be fine, it might pop.. is the cost of the squirters so high that you are willing to risk footing the cost of a replacement motor? I would choose the overkill option and put em in anyway if I were you, even if i was assured over and over again that they weren't necessary. It's your engine, and you will be the one missing some extra cash if it pops.

stariontron · Post by **stariontron** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:48 am

hi guys, thanks for all the replies, im a little bit surprised at the lack of consensus, but that just means there's a good argument each way

whether or not i get hold of this starion engine will be the deciding factor. ive already got a good block sitting here without oil squirters, so i might end up using that. then i guess we'll know whether or not building a 4g63 without them is a good idea

OLD FART · Post by **OLD FART** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:14 am

stariontron wrote:hi guys, thanks for all the replies, im a little bit surprised at the lack of consensus, but that just means there's a good argument each way

whether or not i get hold of this starion engine will be the deciding factor. ive already got a good block sitting here without oil squirters, so i might end up using that. then i guess we'll know whether or not building a 4g63 without them is a good idea

You will always find different views on the need for squirters as you will about the need to keep the balance shafts or not
I think the venerable FJ20T was built without either of them
Thrash congratulations on an well reasoned post :beer

Lunacy · Post by **Lunacy** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:44 am

Stariontron i can put you onto a guy in akl who has 2 starion blocks with squirters sitting round unused if you like. Not sure on the condition of them but don't think he's after alot of coin for them.

stariontron · Post by **stariontron** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:35 pm

whereabouts is this guy? the person who i am currently dealing with has two starion blocks also. still waiting to hear back from him regarding either.

Lunacy · Post by **Lunacy** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:21 pm

Think he's in Blockhouse bay, name is Jesse. He posts a bit on the oldschool forums and might have been on here a couple of times.

coop1er · Post by **coop1er** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:49 pm

Do you need oil squirters? No, but it is possible that they could save an engine. They are just an extra margin of safety.

Has anyone who has used Eagle or Manley conrods (and probably other brands too) noticed that they don't have the drilling for the oil jet that squirts the cylinder walls, that the factory rods have?

Austarion

Do I need oil squirters?

Do I need oil squirters?

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