6G72 into Starion - who has done it?

dirtygalant · Post by **dirtygalant** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:08 am

Hey guys,

I recall a couple of you guys here have 6G72 engines in your Starions?

I've been getting some sinister thoughts lately involving a GTO (3000GT to you yanks) TT block/bottom end, Pajero V6 RWD ancillaries (engine mounts, inlet manifold, water pipe routing etc), and Diamante 30M MIVEC heads into my Eterna.

Would just like to speak to people who have done a similar swap or who have even just attempted it. From what I've seen/experienced so far with the 6G72 the engine will fit in the engine bay fine on the mounts, trouble would be finding a V6 Pajero or L200 with manual gearbox to rob the bellhousing or whole gearbox from - or have been thinking of getting a bellhousing adapter plate made up to suit a stronger box like an R154 for instance.

The main thing which is unknown and concerns me is how the MIVEC heads would go on the GTO block - they are reversable so can be fitted to either bank no problems, but I'm worried the valves will hit the pistons (GTO pistons) on full lift. I could use the MIVEC bottom end but it has quite a high compression ratio which will need to be lowered and I'm unsure if the MIVEC engine has piston oil squirters like the GTO engine does.

I'm pretty much going to buy three engines (Diamante 30M MIVEC, GTO TT and Pajero 6G72 DOHC manual) and build up one good engine out of the lot.

So far so good - http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... =205647513 and http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... =205327829 - just need to find Pajero bits on top of those engines.

Cheers!

MrBishi · Post by **MrBishi** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:32 am

I got as far as buying a Pajero 6G74, mocking it up in front of a T56 and putting it in the engine bay. The list of things that needed to be done (for a proper job) was large and costly. Some of the things I was looking at doing were optional, but others essential. Custom sump, exhaust manifolds, bellhousing, pulley drive system for a/c etc and inlet manifold are a start.

The job list is large for a relatively untested engine. Sure there are reports of big HP 3000GTs, but for every one you hear about, there are 5 horror stories.

In the end I decided that
a) I don't need 11ty billion HP in my Starion. I already have an undrivable/semi-legal car and don't need 2!
b) If I wanted big HP and spent bulk time fabricating custom parts ideally I should start with a proven engine (read LS1, 20B, 2JZ etc).

Don't let me discourage you though. I'd love to see it done.

dirtygalant · Post by **dirtygalant** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:30 am

thanks for that - just curious to know if the stock exhaust manifolds and turbos will squeeze into the Starion engine bay or will they have to be relocated also? also does the standard sump not fit in where the Starion sump originally fits?

cheers

Lunacy · Post by **Lunacy** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:57 am

Give spidersweb (jonno) a PM as when i bought my starion off him he had a starion box modified to fit a 6g72 sitting in his shed, not sure if he still has it or not. Would definitely be unique if ya went ahead with it :)

dirtygalant · Post by **dirtygalant** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:01 am

sweet I'll get in touch with JC, would have thought he would have dusted his hands of Starions and Starion bits by now though.

I reckon with the right combination of bits from the right motors (I think Pajero/L200/Challenger 6G72/6G74 DOHC bits will be hard to find though), it will be quite doable - just a bit expensive though.

MrBishi · Post by **MrBishi** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:13 am

dirtygalant wrote: I reckon with the right combination of bits from the right motors (I think Pajero/L200/Challenger 6G72/6G74 DOHC bits will be hard to find though), it will be quite doable - just a bit expensive though.

Spot on. There will no doubt be a better combo of sump/inlet/pulleys that could work better in a Starion.

What is your budget? What HP are you realistically expecting? ie does the $/hp ratio stack up compared to a 4G6x/LS1/latest hotness conversion? It did not compute for me. What price are you willing to pay to do something 'different'?

Don't kid yourself. A Starion box will not hold up behind a torquey V6 & abuse.

dirtygalant · Post by **dirtygalant** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:23 am

My budget would be $3-5k realistically, but that would include aftermarket ECU and exhaust to be fabricated.

The three donor motors will probably be the cheaper parts to acquire haha.. I'm going to get that GTO engine for $350 and see what that Diamante MIVEC engine ends up at, I'll pay up to $500 for that, if it goes over then I can just wait until the next Diamante MIVEC engine pops up, they come up cheap from time to time.

Realistically I would be happy with just a bit more power/torque than stock. I would rebuild the engine using stock pistons, rings, bearings etc, and use the stock TD04 turbos (with perhaps internals from CC GSR TD04s, they are dirt cheap). I'm not chasing big numbers like 400hp+, I'm more wanting to do the conversion because I like 6 cylinder engines and this seems to be the easiest way to get a powerful Mitsubishi V6 in there.

Yeah I know the gearbox will definitely be the weakest link - I think if I have to bother making up a bellhousing adapter plate, I may as well use a different gearbox entirely. Finding a suitable gearbox for a decent amount of $ might be tricky though.

Lunacy · Post by **Lunacy** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:35 am

[quote="dirtygalant"]sweet I'll get in touch with JC, would have thought he would have dusted his hands of Starions and Starion bits by now though.

Yeah he may well have, il check if ya like am planning to see him this wknd to grab a part off him when i head down to wgtn (i bought both of my cars off him haha)

quest · Post by **quest** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:04 am

When you start getting into rebuilds, parts mix n matching...this path could be paved with dollar bills. Lots of them. Not to mention the time.
End result would be way cool though.
Might hate working on the car tho, and a hobby is supposed to be enjoyable, right ?
One posted on starquest club looked like tight fit.

For your power goal & torque, the 4g64 will easily deliver that. No "guessing" involved whatsoever. Considerably lighter plus far cheaper parts.

I like 6 cylinders too (mainly for the smoothness, more displacement/torque and the sound), but what will it cost to set up this mitsu ?

If you don't mind crossing brand lines, we've seen the old VG30 SOHC 1st gen 300zx V6 in a staz on austarion. An inexpensive, extremely rugged motor that will easily hit that target unopened.
There is a 1st gen 5spd street 300zx here that ETs an amazing 9.3sec without nitros ...just to give you an idea of the outrageous potential. Car is not pro-built and still uses its oe 88 gearbox & diff!

If a twin cam is what you're after... another capable RWD V6 is the 3.4L found in late model toyota pickups.
Seen one "budget" turbo example that laid down a strong 440 ft-lbs of torque to the tires @17psi. Bone stock unopened motor, stock ecu, stock 5spd... saves money.
Boosted by a cheap old T04B, tuned using a SAFC + 440 supra injectors and he "hacked" the stock air flow sensor.
Also put together by an enthusiast, who smoked just about everything that chased it
I'm actually measuring a 3.4 for a possible corolla swap

just throwing out some other oddball ideas

dirtygalant · Post by **dirtygalant** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:40 am

thanks for that, really appreciate your input.

Am pretty set to go the Mitsubishi V6 route, I would really like to see it done and perhaps pave the way for future conversions for other people.

I'll pick up a dummy motor first and see how things fit before going ahead with anything.

I wouldn't mind doing the 4G64 but 4G's are done to death in Mitsubishis in general and would be nice to have something really unique and different.

I have a 6A12 V6 in my daily driver which I rebuilt with new OEM Mitsubishi pistons, rings, bearings etc and all up I was able to do it for under $1000 including the machine work - granted the 6G series has a few more expensive parts than the 6A12, I feel I could build the motor for under $2000. What I'm more worried about is the rest of it, like what gearbox/bellhousing combination to use, custom sump required, thermostat housing on the rear, custom exhaust manifolds to relocate the turbos out of the way of the engine mounts and steering box etc.

I actually considered the 6A12 into the Eterna while I had it out of the Galant on the engine stand next to the Eterna, after spending a few days researching it I came to the conclusion if I wanted a Mitsubishi V6 in there, it would be easier to use the older 6G series as they are mounted north-south factory and have all the RWD stuff available whereas the 6A12 doesn't even have castings on the block to mount engine mounts to, or even share the same bellhousing pattern with a RWD Mitsubishi box.

I would prefer to stick with Mitsubishi just because I don't think I could bring myself to cross-breed my car, and if I did it would be a Toyota engine like a 1JZ or 1UZ, which would more or less cost the same or even more to do the conversion given more custom parts will need to be fabricated.

I guess that main enabler in this conversion is the cost of the engines themselves - they really have come down alot in price in the last 5-10 years. I don't know if it's the same for Australia but you can pick up either a GTO engine, Diamante 30M MIVEC engine or a Pajero V6 engine for under $500 each easy. Rebuild parts are cheap with new piston sets starting from $200 with rings and bearings being inexpensive also. Even gasket sets are getting cheaper now that more aftermarket manufacturers are making them.

I'm not aiming for high numbers (I would be happy with 300-350hp and a good dollap of torque which I'm sure the 6G will provide in near stock form), so I don't think I'll encounter the hideous reliability issues with high hp engines. There are plenty of 6G72s in fat whale 3000GTs in the states doing 9s and 10s so they can't all be that bad.

If you tear down a 6G, you'll see they share alot in common in terms of how they are engineered with the 4G6 series motor, same could be said with the 6A12 and the 4G9 series.

I'll leave you with some pics hopefully to give me a bit more motivation haha

This is a 6G72 into a 70s colt in the US, which would have a smaller engine bay than the Starion:

However having said that, that car has a custom crossmember of some kind and he is slowly building up as an N/A motor.

Here's a 2nd gen GTO block with 30M MIVEC heads and intake - as you can see the intake is pointing the correct way for RWD application which is handy, problem is as it came from a post 96 Diamante, the engine is spun 180deg from the GTO engine, and with that manifold how it is, it covers the "front" rocker cover which has the oil filler cap, so the oil filler cap will have to transferred to the other rocker cover. Normal GTO rocker covers (as sexy as they look) wont fit the MIVEC heads either.

JD_Stazza_Brendan · Post by **JD_Stazza_Brendan** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:42 am

What weight your be added to the front end doing such conversion?
Lead tipped arrow comes to mind.

dirtygalant · Post by **dirtygalant** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:35 am

obviously it's going to make the car a bit heavier but really only by 50kgs max. The 6G block is physically shorter in height and length than the 4G63 and would most likely weigh less than the 4G63 too (my 6A12 block is dwarfed by the 4G63 and is definitely a considerable amount lighter too!), the extra weight comes from the 2nd cylinder head and extra exhaust manifold and piping, turbo etc.

I really don't think it's going to upset the weight distrubution too much, given the car has near 50/50 weight split factory and that the V6 engine would be sitting close to the firewall with most of its mass behind the crossmember compared to the inline 4.

Did you think about the massive increase of unsprung weight when you put those phat chromiez on your ride? Probably not :P

redzone · Post by **redzone** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:50 am

have a look at the 2wd MK/MJ triton NZ equivalent for a RWD 6G72 gearbox, they're a hefty item too.

JD_Stazza_Brendan · Post by **JD_Stazza_Brendan** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:47 am

dirtygalant wrote: Did you think about the massive increase of unsprung weight when you put those phat chromiez on your ride? Probably not :P

Yes, they arnt that heavy either compared to other 18s ive fitted.

quest · Post by **quest** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:01 am

seems like you've done your homework and comfortable with the selction, and aware of
the pitfalls that can nickel & dime you to death... go for it.

We've done a few rwd street corollas with 7M/1JZ/2JZ. You can dial out the
nose-heaviness with stiffer spring. Oddly enough, we used starion springs in the
front of the 7M rolla. Don't see this V6 swap as an issue.

If no bolt-on strong mitsu 5 speed gearbox available, for that torque level a W58 is
fine. Its a smaller, cheaper, more common and smoother shifting than the R154.
On slicks, wheels up (12-18 inch) launches were common in the 7M street rolla. With
an untouched firewall, that is a bit of load lifting a heavy 7 out front like that.
Gearbox was fine when he gave it to me. Fit the rolla tunnel without mods also.

I posted a very detailed link on here how an RB25 box was adapted to a powerful
CA18DET, patterned using a piece of clear glass laminate. Approach should apply to
any motor-gearbox adapt.

I'd route a 'shorty' manifold from the driver side and crossover to the passenger
side where turbo is mounted near front of that head... supported/braced of course.
Direct ALL the airflow toward turbo flange... like stock buick V6s. Even with
upgraded turbos, they lite off near instantly with satisfying torque.
Almost like this (he made 700+ boosting a stock 3.3L ute block btw)

"Twin turbo" sounds cool, but packaging & servicing, with ports located/facing down
like that could be a pain. A single is simple & costs less

Yeah, you definitely pay a "brand-loyalty tax to forfeit more sensible/practical
choices. I'm going thru the same exercise with my rwd toyota starlet... collecting
parts for a 1.8L 20V. It'll probably cost 4-5 times what a comparable CA18 setup
would... for the same performance level. I've done too many mongrels, so I figured I
pump more into a unique little runt for a change... keeping it all toyota

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6G72 into Starion - who has done it?

6G72 into Starion - who has done it?

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