ive got some questions abotu the sirius dash head for the 2.0L starions. as some of you know im one of the crazys from the US, and i recently found this head on one of the forums and ive got frist shot at it. i know almost nothing abotu this head and i need some help.
what block will this head bolt too?
what transmission can i use?
if i dont have the ECU how can i use the 3rd valve?
whats makes the 3rd valve come in? rpm signal? oil pressure?
has any of you made good power with this head?
are there any performance camshafts?
are there any extremly valuble websites on this head?
am i getting in too far?
sirius DASH head.
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SpidersWeb
- postwhore!
- Posts: 1984
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 2:29 am
- Location: Wellington, NZ
Re: sirius DASH head.
Also I beleive the intake side of the head is a unique pattern, so you need the inlet manifold from the engine as well or have a custom one made up. I have not seen a multipoint fuel injection solution that was bolt-on for this head yet. A 12 valve conversion would require less drama than a 16 valve conversion though because it allows you to use off-the-shelf VR4 pistons, and wouldn't necessarily require an aftermarket ECU, and it has things like a distributor so you dont have to upgrade everything all at once like you would with a DOHC solution.alostsoul wrote: what block will this head bolt too? 4G63, you'd want either the 12 or 16 valve pistons though.
what transmission can i use? Using a Starion 4G63 block, the Starion gearbox for the 4G63 would bolt up.
if i dont have the ECU how can i use the 3rd valve? I think you apply 12V and it disables it. Its on by default, the ECU turns it off at low rpm. You would use some relays and a VTEC controller.
whats makes the 3rd valve come in? rpm signal? oil pressure? rpm signal AFAIK might also use TPS to determine, e.g. I dont really know
has any of you made good power with this head? Don't know
are there any performance camshafts? No
are there any extremly valuble websites on this head? Most likely
am i getting in too far? You got in too far when you bought a Starion :P
I am tempted to look in to this as well.
In fact I should probably buy that one on trademe *thinks* hmm
1997 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IV 4G63BT
1996 Nissan Maxima VQ30DE (for sale, suit someone who likes the feel of boats when driving)
1996 Nissan Maxima VQ30DE (for sale, suit someone who likes the feel of boats when driving)
Re: sirius DASH head.
1)The head will bolt on a wideblock (normal for us) 4G63 SOHC.alostsoul wrote:ive got some questions abotu the sirius dash head for the 2.0L starions. as some of you know im one of the crazys from the US, and i recently found this head on one of the forums and ive got frist shot at it. i know almost nothing abotu this head and i need some help.
what block will this head bolt too?
what transmission can i use?
if i dont have the ECU how can i use the 3rd valve?
whats makes the 3rd valve come in? rpm signal? oil pressure?
has any of you made good power with this head?
are there any performance camshafts?
are there any extremly valuble websites on this head?
am i getting in too far?
2) Starion
3) just maybe get a RPM operated switch from MSD or something. It's only on or off. 12V solenoid on the head.
4) RPM activated by ECU at approx 2000 RPM.
5) ask wantsom soon (dyno like maybe next week)
6) we haven't found any let us know if you do
7) again we haven't found any let us know if you do
I think there are about 5 people on this forum running a DASH head. This engine was never sold here from the factory. Engines here obtained from used JDM parts importers.
Was however sold factory in NZ (some guys from NZ on this forum).
The DASH head flows a bit better than the SOHC although nobody is quite sure however much. Certainly comparing both heads (stock) the DASH engine revs more.
FWD engines pretty common. RWD engines pretty rare.
Certainly it's a no go on the 2.6 G54 bottom end, different engine family.
cheers,
Mark.
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SpidersWeb
- postwhore!
- Posts: 1984
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 2:29 am
- Location: Wellington, NZ
1984 JDM Starions, using the TC05-12:
4G63 8 valve: 172hp (GSR-everything else)
4G63 12 valve: 197hp (GSR-V)
Both using the small TC05-12 and the same factory intercooler setups. With a TC06 I'd imagine the 12 valve doing >200hp at the flywheel, which isn't far below the Galant VR4 which was 230? from memory. Plus as far as head porting goes, adding another valve is pretty good!
4G63 8 valve: 172hp (GSR-everything else)
4G63 12 valve: 197hp (GSR-V)
Both using the small TC05-12 and the same factory intercooler setups. With a TC06 I'd imagine the 12 valve doing >200hp at the flywheel, which isn't far below the Galant VR4 which was 230? from memory. Plus as far as head porting goes, adding another valve is pretty good!
1997 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IV 4G63BT
1996 Nissan Maxima VQ30DE (for sale, suit someone who likes the feel of boats when driving)
1996 Nissan Maxima VQ30DE (for sale, suit someone who likes the feel of boats when driving)
thanks for the quick replys.
this is what i had cooked up when i frist started thinking abotu doing this. i was goin to use a 4G64 wideblock bottom end with the sirius dash head (if it would bolt up), the use a custom intake and exhaust manifold, with a stand alone fuel and spark managment system. my biggest fear was not being able to activate the 3rd valve without the factory ecu and wireing harness, also not finding a block with a sutible transmission for this to be practicle. im looking to turn some RPM with this engine and make around 300HP.
im new to this swap stuff, as i have a complete 2.4L engine from an SRT-4 thats bloted to a JEEP Liberty transmission with monts ready to go into a starion, but im waiting for the right car... and a FAST fuel system.
i want to do the DASH engine due to it being so rare in the US. ive already come to the conclusion that its goin to take alot of work and some serious research, which ive already contacted a mechanic from japan that works on these engines, he told me that it took him a while to write emails in english and too read mine but he is more than happy to help me. and with what you guys know, i should be headed on the right path. thanks for the help.
this is what i had cooked up when i frist started thinking abotu doing this. i was goin to use a 4G64 wideblock bottom end with the sirius dash head (if it would bolt up), the use a custom intake and exhaust manifold, with a stand alone fuel and spark managment system. my biggest fear was not being able to activate the 3rd valve without the factory ecu and wireing harness, also not finding a block with a sutible transmission for this to be practicle. im looking to turn some RPM with this engine and make around 300HP.
im new to this swap stuff, as i have a complete 2.4L engine from an SRT-4 thats bloted to a JEEP Liberty transmission with monts ready to go into a starion, but im waiting for the right car... and a FAST fuel system.
i want to do the DASH engine due to it being so rare in the US. ive already come to the conclusion that its goin to take alot of work and some serious research, which ive already contacted a mechanic from japan that works on these engines, he told me that it took him a while to write emails in english and too read mine but he is more than happy to help me. and with what you guys know, i should be headed on the right path. thanks for the help.
whats the redline on these two engines.SpidersWeb wrote:1984 JDM Starions, using the TC05-12:
4G63 8 valve: 172hp (GSR-everything else)
4G63 12 valve: 197hp (GSR-V)
Both using the small TC05-12 and the same factory intercooler setups. With a TC06 I'd imagine the 12 valve doing >200hp at the flywheel, which isn't far below the Galant VR4 which was 230? from memory. Plus as far as head porting goes, adding another valve is pretty good!
I have the DASH head in the track car.
The answers you have been given are all good. A couple of extra bits of information to help, based on what I have experienced.
there is no commercially available MPI set up. By that I mean I had mine made by Buckley Street Autos here in Sydney. Not cheap as they are handmade. You will need a Throttle body to suit (I run an XF Ford Falcon 65mm version). Also you will need the flange off a FWD Cordia DASH motor for the MPI converison.
The inlet ports are much different meaning you will have to make your own gaskets - no big deal. All other gaskets etc are the same as the single cam 4G63.
Merlin might have the stand t/b inlet manifold set up from his DASH available now he has the T/C.
I'd flip the idea of the original ECU and go straight with an aftermarket ECU. The 3rd valve is solenoid activated by revs only and will need one of the outputs to activate. I am running an early version Haltech and it (now) works fine. Just make sure whatever ECU you go with has enough outputs to run you injectors. ignition and the 3rd valve as well as boost etc. We had to ditch the electronic boost control to use that output to run the valve. Later version ECU's now have more outputs than my earlier one.
Parts are hard (read bloody near impossible) to get and generally outside of the forum. oo one really knows anything about them - including my ex tuner!!! :x I have 2 good heads and a 'donor' one!!!
That said there is supposed to be a hp benefit with them and they rev to 7000 easily. Rumour has it they are supposedly good for 250HP but piss the tiny TC05 off and get a decent turbo for some genuine grunt. I'll try and post some pics of my setup here for you today.
Cheers
Greg
The answers you have been given are all good. A couple of extra bits of information to help, based on what I have experienced.
there is no commercially available MPI set up. By that I mean I had mine made by Buckley Street Autos here in Sydney. Not cheap as they are handmade. You will need a Throttle body to suit (I run an XF Ford Falcon 65mm version). Also you will need the flange off a FWD Cordia DASH motor for the MPI converison.
The inlet ports are much different meaning you will have to make your own gaskets - no big deal. All other gaskets etc are the same as the single cam 4G63.
Merlin might have the stand t/b inlet manifold set up from his DASH available now he has the T/C.
I'd flip the idea of the original ECU and go straight with an aftermarket ECU. The 3rd valve is solenoid activated by revs only and will need one of the outputs to activate. I am running an early version Haltech and it (now) works fine. Just make sure whatever ECU you go with has enough outputs to run you injectors. ignition and the 3rd valve as well as boost etc. We had to ditch the electronic boost control to use that output to run the valve. Later version ECU's now have more outputs than my earlier one.
Parts are hard (read bloody near impossible) to get and generally outside of the forum. oo one really knows anything about them - including my ex tuner!!! :x I have 2 good heads and a 'donor' one!!!
That said there is supposed to be a hp benefit with them and they rev to 7000 easily. Rumour has it they are supposedly good for 250HP but piss the tiny TC05 off and get a decent turbo for some genuine grunt. I'll try and post some pics of my setup here for you today.
Cheers
Greg
Never argue with an idiot, it brings you down to their level and they beat you with experience.
Another thing,
You will need an optical dizzie. The DASH optical distributor has 360 reference holes which cant be used. Merlin used the original DASH disc and modified it to 4 slots and a home trigger. A sonata or Mitsi optical dizzie are all usuable as well and come with the 4 slots already there
You will need to modify the diz cap as it wont fit between the MPI inlet manifold.
Walk in the park really rofl
You will need an optical dizzie. The DASH optical distributor has 360 reference holes which cant be used. Merlin used the original DASH disc and modified it to 4 slots and a home trigger. A sonata or Mitsi optical dizzie are all usuable as well and come with the 4 slots already there
You will need to modify the diz cap as it wont fit between the MPI inlet manifold.
Walk in the park really rofl
Never argue with an idiot, it brings you down to their level and they beat you with experience.
A few reputable Camshaft specialists will be able to weld the Cam lobes up and grind out a custom spec 
I will have the flow figures of both the stock 8v and 12v heads along with the dummy ported 8v and 12v Cylinder Heads in a couple months time :P
I also have 2 spare Inlet manifolds set-ups but it would be cheaper for you to get the flange laser cut over there and go MPI.
I will have the flow figures of both the stock 8v and 12v heads along with the dummy ported 8v and 12v Cylinder Heads in a couple months time :P
I also have 2 spare Inlet manifolds set-ups but it would be cheaper for you to get the flange laser cut over there and go MPI.
Computer games don't affect kids I mean if PacMan affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music :D
A few extra notes....
You can run an original JA or JB distributor, ( Hall effect type ) as I am, as long as you have the original throttle body.
The JA ECU will run the motor, ( with a few wiring changes ) I have been for 2 years, will be a lot better going to an after market ECU.
The 3rd valves run all the time if you leave the solenoid disconnected.
Putting power on the solenoid disables the valves.
Running the 3rd valves all the time works ok. The idle will just be lumpy, like you have a big cam.
In fact I think that is what a DASH head is, a large cam with hi lift and different timing for more performance, but it is able to be turned off, to make idle and low power settings more usable.
I would love to get some more info on a DASH, ( Alostsoul ) If you find out any info from your contact in Japan, could you please pass it on?
Cheers.
A
You can run an original JA or JB distributor, ( Hall effect type ) as I am, as long as you have the original throttle body.
The JA ECU will run the motor, ( with a few wiring changes ) I have been for 2 years, will be a lot better going to an after market ECU.
The 3rd valves run all the time if you leave the solenoid disconnected.
Putting power on the solenoid disables the valves.
Running the 3rd valves all the time works ok. The idle will just be lumpy, like you have a big cam.
In fact I think that is what a DASH head is, a large cam with hi lift and different timing for more performance, but it is able to be turned off, to make idle and low power settings more usable.
I would love to get some more info on a DASH, ( Alostsoul ) If you find out any info from your contact in Japan, could you please pass it on?
Cheers.
A
JA 4g63Dash To4 Intercooled Wolf 3dv4
Jb Standard
EVO 8
Starions since 1993.
Jb Standard
EVO 8
Starions since 1993.
so far he has replyed once, this being what he wrote...
Hi Keith,
Thanks for your mail. It takes time to write mail in English but I can
understand your mail and try to reply you as much as I could.
There are two in-valves and one ex-valve in DASH Engine. Generally one
in-valve works and another one starts to work from 2400rpm. Its changes
done by off and on valve controlled by ECU and by this valve's work, it
makes engine oil pressure through cylinder-head off and on. It is
impossible to put on this head to US-SPEC G54B 2.6L Engine. This is
completely different engine which is using for up-grading a part of
J-SPEC G63B 2.0L Engine. If you want to do, get Engine-Block of J-SPEC
or EUROPE-SPEC's ‚f63‚a or 4G63 and put them together. That is the only
way I can suggest.
Good luck,
Takaharu
Hi Keith,
Thanks for your mail. It takes time to write mail in English but I can
understand your mail and try to reply you as much as I could.
There are two in-valves and one ex-valve in DASH Engine. Generally one
in-valve works and another one starts to work from 2400rpm. Its changes
done by off and on valve controlled by ECU and by this valve's work, it
makes engine oil pressure through cylinder-head off and on. It is
impossible to put on this head to US-SPEC G54B 2.6L Engine. This is
completely different engine which is using for up-grading a part of
J-SPEC G63B 2.0L Engine. If you want to do, get Engine-Block of J-SPEC
or EUROPE-SPEC's ‚f63‚a or 4G63 and put them together. That is the only
way I can suggest.
Good luck,
Takaharu
He forgot OZ-spec 4G63alostsoul wrote:so far he has replyed once, this being what he wrote...
Hi Keith,
Thanks for your mail. It takes time to write mail in English but I can
understand your mail and try to reply you as much as I could.
There are two in-valves and one ex-valve in DASH Engine. Generally one
in-valve works and another one starts to work from 2400rpm. Its changes
done by off and on valve controlled by ECU and by this valve's work, it
makes engine oil pressure through cylinder-head off and on. It is
impossible to put on this head to US-SPEC G54B 2.6L Engine. This is
completely different engine which is using for up-grading a part of
J-SPEC G63B 2.0L Engine. If you want to do, get Engine-Block of J-SPEC
or EUROPE-SPEC's ‚f63‚a or 4G63 and put them together. That is the only
way I can suggest.
Good luck,
Takaharu
i had palned on makeing a intake manifold myself, i had made one a long ass time ago for a G54B but got rid of it cause i wasnt goin to use it. its not hard as long as you have an idea of what your doing and do some math along the way.
BTW... nice setup, id like to see a video or more pics if possible... also some numbers please.
BTW... nice setup, id like to see a video or more pics if possible... also some numbers please.
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