you lost me after four stroke engine at 3000rpm.
in simple terms, as this has been dragged out way more then it needs to be.... is there really any difference?
OMG.......why has no-one made an adaptor plate for the t/b ?
IMO, no you will never notice a difference with 1 more 90 deg bend and 2' of tubing.
tho i have seen 1 custom setup (i wish i had my camera there it was beautiful) wich had it coming out of the turbo, bend then thru the radiator support straight into the end tanks of the cooler then a custom intake manifold wich pointed exactly at the pass side radiator support. 3 bends in total, 2 of them in the endtanks, its not possible to have it better than that setup.
tho i have seen 1 custom setup (i wish i had my camera there it was beautiful) wich had it coming out of the turbo, bend then thru the radiator support straight into the end tanks of the cooler then a custom intake manifold wich pointed exactly at the pass side radiator support. 3 bends in total, 2 of them in the endtanks, its not possible to have it better than that setup.
You definitely wont be able to notice the difference in extra piping and and bends, but a more efficient intercooler will make a noticeable improvement in lag times and boost response/threshold.CussCuss wrote:IMO, no you will never notice a difference with 1 more 90 deg bend and 2' of tubing.
CussCuss wrote: tho i have seen 1 custom setup (i wish i had my camera there it was beautiful) wich had it coming out of the turbo, bend then thru the radiator support straight into the end tanks of the cooler then a custom intake manifold wich pointed exactly at the pass side radiator support. 3 bends in total, 2 of them in the endtanks, its not possible to have it better than that setup.
That is how mine was going to be if I had proceeded with the custom inlet manifold. It will have to wait until nxtime.
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Thats what I have setup on the lancer. 4" 60deg bend out of end tank straight into low mount inlet manifold. Cannot get any better than that.
But in answer to the original post I can't see the value in rotating the throttle body. There will be the afore mentioned fuel distribution problems, plus custom accelerator cable, possible contact with the rocker cover for extremely minimal gain.
Expend those braincells on other areas that gain you more HP.
But in answer to the original post I can't see the value in rotating the throttle body. There will be the afore mentioned fuel distribution problems, plus custom accelerator cable, possible contact with the rocker cover for extremely minimal gain.
Expend those braincells on other areas that gain you more HP.
4G63 - 87kg
4G54 - 107kg
4G54 - 107kg
If you are going to chase power loss.... take a good hard look at the stock Exhaust manifold.
The exhaust pipes out of No.1 & No.4 cylinders sweep around and meet with cylinder pipes No.2 and No.3 in the centre of the manifold. The gases collide head on and have no where to go but up through the hole into the turbo.
Those gases have a high velosity out off the motor, only to be wasted by suddenly doing a snap 90 degree turn. Mitsubishi made that manifold to keep costs down at the expense of power loss.
That is why the exhaust manifold cracks in the centre, it is being heated by 4 blow torches before it changes direction.
If you go to the effort and make a new manifold with sweeping bends, you will get a major power gain at lower temperatures.
I would leave the throttle body alone, there is not much to be gained. Once you have achieved the boost you want at the inlet of the motor, you have what you need, obviously the straighter the piping the less lag, but the engine bay has not got the space of a ballroom!
:D
The exhaust pipes out of No.1 & No.4 cylinders sweep around and meet with cylinder pipes No.2 and No.3 in the centre of the manifold. The gases collide head on and have no where to go but up through the hole into the turbo.
Those gases have a high velosity out off the motor, only to be wasted by suddenly doing a snap 90 degree turn. Mitsubishi made that manifold to keep costs down at the expense of power loss.
That is why the exhaust manifold cracks in the centre, it is being heated by 4 blow torches before it changes direction.
If you go to the effort and make a new manifold with sweeping bends, you will get a major power gain at lower temperatures.
I would leave the throttle body alone, there is not much to be gained. Once you have achieved the boost you want at the inlet of the motor, you have what you need, obviously the straighter the piping the less lag, but the engine bay has not got the space of a ballroom!
:D
JA 4g63Dash To4 Intercooled Wolf 3dv4
Jb Standard
EVO 8
Starions since 1993.
Jb Standard
EVO 8
Starions since 1993.
i couldnt agree with this more, its one of the worst designed manifolds iver ever seen having the runners go directly into each other.Abalistic wrote:If you are going to chase power loss.... take a good hard look at the stock Exhaust manifold.
The exhaust pipes out of No.1 & No.4 cylinders sweep around and meet with cylinder pipes No.2 and No.3 in the centre of the manifold. The gases collide head on and have no where to go but up through the hole into the turbo.
Those gases have a high velosity out off the motor, only to be wasted by suddenly doing a snap 90 degree turn. Mitsubishi made that manifold to keep costs down at the expense of power loss.
That is why the exhaust manifold cracks in the centre, it is being heated by 4 blow torches before it changes direction.
If you go to the effort and make a new manifold with sweeping bends, you will get a major power gain at lower temperatures.
I would leave the throttle body alone, there is not much to be gained. Once you have achieved the boost you want at the inlet of the motor, you have what you need, obviously the straighter the piping the less lag, but the engine bay has not got the space of a ballroom!
:D
-
fr335tyl3r
- I'm Sorta Reformed!
- Posts: 2073
- Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 3:07 am
- Location: Baulkham Hills, NSW
anyone had a custom manifold made up? Idea of cost involved?
Multipoint Conversion Underway
http://starions.fr33z3.net/mpi/
http://starions.fr33z3.net/mpi/
TOMSUN has, its not impossible to do yourself either.
a mate is doing one currently for a piazza to fit a t3 on and when hes finished with that hes gonna do mine. Its simply (ha) a matter of getting the approximate dimensions of where you want it, going into a CAD program and drawing it up and that will tell you exactly how many steam pipe bends and how much straight section you need and then order the bits and weld it together. Flanges can be made by tracing out gaskets and using a holesaw or ordered from a place like liverpool exhaust like TOMSUN did.
The main cost involved in getting a custom one from a workshop is the huge labour cost of a 1 off job.
a mate is doing one currently for a piazza to fit a t3 on and when hes finished with that hes gonna do mine. Its simply (ha) a matter of getting the approximate dimensions of where you want it, going into a CAD program and drawing it up and that will tell you exactly how many steam pipe bends and how much straight section you need and then order the bits and weld it together. Flanges can be made by tracing out gaskets and using a holesaw or ordered from a place like liverpool exhaust like TOMSUN did.
The main cost involved in getting a custom one from a workshop is the huge labour cost of a 1 off job.
I've posted this pic a long time ago..... but here it is again and it was not that hard to make.
The first step was to know roughly where the turbo is going to be positioned.
Not too high, or you won't shut the bonnet.
Then get some 1/2 inch steel plate, and using an old exhaust gasket as a template mark out the shape and the position of the exhaust ports and mounting stud holes.
Get a machine shop or a good welding shop to cut out the shape and drill the holes. ( if you have access to a workshop, do it yourself )
From memory I made the exhaust port holes through the plate 41mm Dia.
A big drill press can do it no worries.
Mount the plate onto the cylinder head, so you can see where you are headed. Get some cast steel steampipe bends, a mixture of 45 degree ones and some sweeping radius 90 degree ones.
Start cutting them up into segments with a hand hacksaw and vice, and experiment with them to get the desired shape you want. Use tape to hold the segments together as you check how they fit on the manifold plate.
When you have what you want TIG weld sections together and move on.
Use a die grinder as you go to clean up and/or fix mistakes.
This is not a job you can do in a weekend by yourself, but if you have time, and do a bit, an hour or 2 every day, it comes together quite quickly.
The first step was to know roughly where the turbo is going to be positioned.
Not too high, or you won't shut the bonnet.
Then get some 1/2 inch steel plate, and using an old exhaust gasket as a template mark out the shape and the position of the exhaust ports and mounting stud holes.
Get a machine shop or a good welding shop to cut out the shape and drill the holes. ( if you have access to a workshop, do it yourself )
From memory I made the exhaust port holes through the plate 41mm Dia.
A big drill press can do it no worries.
Mount the plate onto the cylinder head, so you can see where you are headed. Get some cast steel steampipe bends, a mixture of 45 degree ones and some sweeping radius 90 degree ones.
Start cutting them up into segments with a hand hacksaw and vice, and experiment with them to get the desired shape you want. Use tape to hold the segments together as you check how they fit on the manifold plate.
When you have what you want TIG weld sections together and move on.
Use a die grinder as you go to clean up and/or fix mistakes.
This is not a job you can do in a weekend by yourself, but if you have time, and do a bit, an hour or 2 every day, it comes together quite quickly.
JA 4g63Dash To4 Intercooled Wolf 3dv4
Jb Standard
EVO 8
Starions since 1993.
Jb Standard
EVO 8
Starions since 1993.
Here is a pic of the finished product.....
Out of all the mods I have done to my Starion this mod was the single biggest jump in increased performance.
I could not believe the difference it made, the turbo lag went down to next to nothing, it runs cooler, and it has a good 20% more power.
:D :D
Out of all the mods I have done to my Starion this mod was the single biggest jump in increased performance.
I could not believe the difference it made, the turbo lag went down to next to nothing, it runs cooler, and it has a good 20% more power.
:D :D
JA 4g63Dash To4 Intercooled Wolf 3dv4
Jb Standard
EVO 8
Starions since 1993.
Jb Standard
EVO 8
Starions since 1993.
Sorry, I was only trying to say it is not expensive to do, and you don't need to go to a performance shop to get it done.
Where the 4 pipes join together, I just cut them length wise with a hacksaw, and welded them together. ( and grind alot! )
I did wreck a lot of bits of pipe till I got the right shape though. The end plate for the Turbo flange was just a copy of the gasket.
:)
A.
Where the 4 pipes join together, I just cut them length wise with a hacksaw, and welded them together. ( and grind alot! )
I did wreck a lot of bits of pipe till I got the right shape though. The end plate for the Turbo flange was just a copy of the gasket.
:)
A.
JA 4g63Dash To4 Intercooled Wolf 3dv4
Jb Standard
EVO 8
Starions since 1993.
Jb Standard
EVO 8
Starions since 1993.
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