Oil Surge?

huge · Post by **huge** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:50 pm

G'day everyone! I wanted to ask if any of you have experienced oil surge problems with your Starions? In particular, I'm interested in hearing from anyone who has participated in track-days and/or other forms of motorsport. I know Cookie among others, participates in track-days and that David with his rally Starion and extensive Starion technical knowledge/experience, would most likely be 'in the know' regarding this issue.

I have participted in quite a few track-days in my JA over the last 3 years. The car had been enjoyable and reliable until I increased boost to around 12psi (intercooled). The last time I ran at Phillip Island oil was coming out of the oil filler cap on the rocker cover. I turned the boost back down to around 8-9psi, but the problem continued. I put it down to the very high cornering loads generated at the island and the car continued to run fine.

My most recent track-day was at Sandown last October where my Boost was set at around 10psi. It was extremely wet for the first half of the day and I thorougly enjoyed 'opposite locking' my way around the circuit!!! Heaps of fun!!! Once the track dried out, I was able to push a bit harder but I was still being kind to the car (not slamming the throttle open or revving it to the redline.) Unfortunately, going through 'the esses' off the back straight on my final run, the car blew a huge cloud of oil smoke so I returned to the pits very slowly. Under the bonnet there was oil everywhere, and it appeared to have come up and out of the oil dipstick tube! The was also oil and air bubbles around the oil feed line to the turbo (a big worry) and it was a godawful mess! I cleaned up the car and it ran fine on the drive home.

All seemed ok until after a hot start a week or so later when the car blew a big cloud of oil smoke out the exhaust for probably 8-10 seconds! The car has now been sitting idle for several months. The turbo itself now smokes quite considerably when the engine's running (I can't see excactly where it's coming from) but there hasn't been any smoke out of the exhaust for ages. There is also a small amount of oil in the compressor outlet.

I would assume that the turbo main seals are definately gone and that it will need a rebuild but what I'm wondering is whether the whole problem was due to oil surge/airation/pressure build-up or perhaps poorly sealing piston rings leading to pressurisation of the sump/oil system under boost? The engine and turbo were both fully rebuilt only 50k ago so I'd be suprised and obviously disappointed if it's the rings!

Sorry for the long-winded story everyone, but I'd be keen to know if anyone else has encountered similar problems, what it was caused by and how it was rectified.

All help/advice greatly appreciated!

Cheers everyone!

Huge.

scum · Post by **scum** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:07 pm

sorry, too much to read. please reduce it to one line using words of 2 syllables or less. thanks.

Cam · Post by **Cam** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:42 pm

I had similar problem with my car, The oil kept pushing the dipstick out and covering the engine bay. When pulled then engine apart to rebuild it i had managed to brake away the piston lands on two pistons. This may not be the case of whats happened but anything is possible.
Hope this helps and doesnt scare you to much.

Post by **Alspos** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:54 am

Huge, your plumbing under the bonnet is a little different than stock, perhaps you are pressurising something or something is open that shouldn't be? PCV valve is on a vent right? Or maybe we rip off the sump and add some baffles to stop oil moving around so much. I'll get the arc welder ready....

huge · Post by **huge** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 12:46 pm

G'day Cam. Thanks for your info. When your piston lands broke, was your engine fairly old or running high boost? I haven't really heard of this problem before. I sure hope it isn't the rings! Hopefully a compression test may tell me. It's a worry but what can you say, it's a mechanical device!

Cheers,

Huge.

Cookiemonster · Post by **Cookiemonster** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:28 pm

I've never had oil surge problems whilst on the track.

Sounds like your pressurising your crankcase.. which is indicative of cracked ring lands.

Cam · Post by **Cam** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 2:49 pm

The engine was an import, am not sure how many k's the engine had done.
The boost was higher than standard (10psi) Which probably didnt help it at all.

huge · Post by **huge** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:25 pm

G'day Cookie/Cam. Thanks a lot for your input. Cookie, I was interested to hear from you as I know you drive your Starion on the track. Hmm, the piston lands; not the best of news! Would this problem be diagnosable by a compression test? Obviously, if this is the problem the engine will need a rebuild but will it need new pistons? I would imagine so. By the way, I saw the pictures of your roll-cage; nice! Your car is certainly a tidy unit! Are you running a standard sump?

Cam, yeah I guess 10psi wouldn't have helped! Thanks for your info again.

Cheers,

Huge.

Cookiemonster · Post by **Cookiemonster** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:35 pm

huge wrote:G'day Cookie/Cam. Thanks a lot for your input. Cookie, I was interested to hear from you as I know you drive your Starion on the track. Hmm, the piston lands; not the best of news! Would this problem be diagnosable by a compression test? Obviously, if this is the problem the engine will need a rebuild but will it need new pistons? I would imagine so. By the way, I saw the pictures of your roll-cage; nice! Your car is certainly a tidy unit! Are you running a standard sump?

Yes a compression will pick up this problem. If the ring lands are cracked then yep.. new pistons you shall need. The ring land is part of the piston. I had an engine let go and it cracked 3 piston ring lands. Two of the bores were also badly scored. Bad enough that the block couldn't be re-used unless I had it re-sleeved. Luckily I had a spare block.

Im running a standard sump at the moment but I am investigating a larger baffled sump. I will also install a crank scraper to help reduce oil aeration.

huge · Post by **huge** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:02 pm

G'day again Cookie. Thanks for the detailed and rapid reply! Yeah, I figured the 'land' is part of the piston, but I've never actually rebuilt and engine myself so my detail knowledge of specific components is somewhat limited. I sure hope it isn't the problem but unfortunately the symptoms are kind of pointing in that direction. Would the problem present as signifigantly lower than normal pressure reading(s) with a comp test? Yeah, a baffled sump with a windage tray/crank-scrapper would most likely be a good investment. Particularly when you consider the high cornering loads a balanced sports machine like the Starion can achieve!!!

Thanks again for your advice!

Cheers,

Huge.

Cookiemonster · Post by **Cookiemonster** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:16 pm

huge wrote:Would the problem present as signifigantly lower than normal pressure reading(s) with a comp test?

Yes... a low figure in one cylinder would indicate and ring or piston problem there.

huge · Post by **huge** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:29 pm

Thanks again for your help Cookie.

Cheers,

huge.

Austarion

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